??? For Shiraz

[tclaunch]

I am just done chambering my Norma Dasher with a dedicated 1.610" reamer, and fell in love with results with initial testing. I was given 100 pieces of brass, by a good buddy who must have ordered 500 from you. Anyway, is there any more negotiating with Norma to reduce the rim thickness? Thats the only fly to me. Even buying the 30-30 shell holders, neither of my BAT actions would pull the case due rim thickness. I decided to put them all through the lathe and cut rim thickness down to where they would fit correct shell holder which now makes this amazing brass. I never thought they would shoot but so so until fireformed, but saw how they reacted to load changes. I went for it and was fully impressed with a .189" 5 shot group at 100 yds with brand new cases.

 

[Jet]

Tag--interested in response from Shiraz

 

[boltfluter]

I am just done chambering my Norma Dasher with a dedicated 1.610" reamer, and fell in love with results with initial testing. I was given 100 pieces of brass, by a good buddy who must have ordered 500 from you. Anyway, is there any more negotiating with Norma to reduce the rim thickness? Thats the only fly to me. Even buying the 30-30 shell holders, neither of my BAT actions would pull the case due rim thickness. I decided to put them all through the lathe and cut rim thickness down to where they would fit correct shell holder which now makes this amazing brass. I never thought they would shoot but so so until fireformed, but saw how they reacted to load changes. I went for it and was fully impressed with a .189" 5 shot group at 100 yds with brand new cases.

Tim,

We need pics or it never happened. Lol.

Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[tclaunch]

Here ya go Paul....

 

[ASbobcat]

I am just done chambering my Norma Dasher with a dedicated 1.610" reamer, and fell in love with results with initial testing. I was given 100 pieces of brass, by a good buddy who must have ordered 500 from you. Anyway, is there any more negotiating with Norma to reduce the rim thickness? Thats the only fly to me. Even buying the 30-30 shell holders, neither of my BAT actions would pull the case due rim thickness. I decided to put them all through the lathe and cut rim thickness down to where they would fit correct shell holder which now makes this amazing brass. I never thought they would shoot but so so until fireformed, but saw how they reacted to load changes. I went for it and was fully impressed with a .189" 5 shot group at 100 yds with brand new cases.

 

[Shiraz]

We are into the second shipment of this brass and have gone through over half of this second shipment.

There is a third shipment at the factory and I have asked them to make the rim thickness a little slimmer so they fit any action. We have had some people, like yourself, that have really tight extractor claws and do not want to adjust them (although it is very easy to do so), that will buy the brass if they are able to cycle it through their guns.

Timing wise, it will be two or three months before that shipment comes in because I told them to take their time and re-check each one through their quality control.

Hopefully, this will not turn into a "I told you so", "it should have been like that to begin with" etc thread. I spent an inordinate amount of time explaining this in other threads and do not wish to get sucked into another one like it.

By the way - nice group!

 

[tclaunch]

I can easily delete the first thread if it goes south. You do not deserve grief for attempting to make reloaders life easier. I was just hoping there was some bargaining left to make your efforts as close to perfection as you meant for them to be.

 

[Eric Leonard]

Tim you switched from VLDs to Hybirds??? UBR season is about done and pulled my 8 twist barrels out the safe,,

whats the freebore on the 1.610 Dasher reamer

 

[Kiba]

Had to remove 0.008" from my extractor hook to get the Norma Dasher cases to extract 100% in my rifle... took about 10 minutes to do. Worst part was getting over the anxiety of carving on a $100 extractor, then it went quick.

Personally, I like the thicker rim just for extra material around the primer pocket, and all it took to handle it was $14 for a shell holder for my press and 10 minutes with basic tools to adjust the extractor.

However, I can understand (but still scratch my head a bit) if some people don't want to take a few minutes and modify their extractors for the slightly thicker case rims.

Also, Tim... 33.1gr Varget with 105 Hybrids? Guess I started *way* too conservative on my loads. Just for reference, what's the barrel length/twist and velocity from that group? I'm seeing excellent accuracy as well even on the first trip of the brass though the rifle, but my velocities are way down as I went very conservative on the initial powder charge.

This is my first Dasher, and the Norma brass sure did make for an easy way to get started!

 

[Eric Leonard]

if you alter the extractor will it still work for the PPC ,BR and 6.5x47L cases??

 

[tclaunch]

Tim you switched from VLDs to Hybirds??? UBR season is about done and pulled my 8 twist barrels out the safe,,

whats the freebore on the 1.610 Dasher reamer

That freebore is a .140" it is still perfect to me even with the extra room in the neck. I lately shoot 108 Bergers and always try Hybrids in each new chamber. I was encouraged by a friends luck with this particular lot of Hybrids, so I knew they would work in the right barrel. This was the 3rd setback of this Brux. I believe I bought it in 2007, and it had the bore size that many elude to with Brux barrels and it had a .2366", which led me to immediately try Varget. All recent Brux barrels are .236" that I have had. I have not shot these Hybrids at distance, but my buddy has and shows me some very impressive groups, well below 2". The freebore has the bearing surface above the neck/shoulder on both 108 and 105 Hybrid.

 

[tclaunch]

Had to remove 0.008" from my extractor hook to get the Norma Dasher cases to extract 100% in my rifle... took about 10 minutes to do. Worst part was getting over the anxiety of carving on a $100 extractor, then it went quick.

Personally, I like the thicker rim just for extra material around the primer pocket, and all it took to handle it was $14 for a shell holder for my press and 10 minutes with basic tools to adjust the extractor.

However, I can understand (but still scratch my head a bit) if some people don't want to take a few minutes and modify their extractors for the slightly thicker case rims.

Also, Tim... 33.1gr Varget with 105 Hybrids? Guess I started *way* too conservative on my loads. Just for reference, what's the barrel length/twist and velocity from that group? I'm seeing excellent accuracy as well even on the first trip of the brass though the rifle, but my velocities are way down as I went very conservative on the initial powder charge.

This is my first Dasher, and the Norma brass sure did make for an easy way to get started!

I took a chronograph to make sure I was kind to the brass with all the time I had invested, well over 10 minutes , I didn`t want to alter $3000.00 worth of actions over $100.00 worth of brass and started and 32 grains and saw very slow readings, 32.5 was below the 2980 for the goal speed, I figured 33 would also not be there, as I was thinking 33.5 is where it would tighten up the verticle. I decided to go 33, and the first charge out of the Chargemaster was the 33.1 so I loaded 3, shot them into a nice knot, went back loaded 2 more and they walked right in there with the first 3. the velocity ended up at 2940 fps, but as my favorite saying about this endeavor is "It ain`t a race"
The barrel is close to 27" and is an 8 twist Brux. Its the same barrel I shot at Piedmont NC in Lt class as a 6BR, I believe in 2010.

 

[tclaunch]

if you alter the extractor will it still work for the PPC ,BR and 6.5x47L cases??

Hope someone will chime in who has removed material from their extractor.

 

[Eric Leonard]

with the longer neck I figured you might have shortened the fb a tad,,on another note how you think that case would look with shoulder blown out about .080 and a 6.5 130 VLD stickin out of it??

 

[KWeigel]

with the longer neck I figured you might have shortened the fb a tad,,on another note how you think that case would look with shoulder blown out about .080 and a 6.5 130 VLD stickin out of it??

I love playing with things but why not a 6.5X47?

 

[Eric Leonard]

I have a Stiller Tac 30 6.5x47 in an AICS 1.5 chassis for PRS type shooting but that case is too long to eject from my Farley action,,if the new Dasher brass can be improved as much as the 6BR to 6 Dasher I think it would be a fun project to see how a 6.5 Dasher +.080 would shoot,,it just might shoot better with some faster powders than the 47L and group tighter and hold better vertical,,and it might not,,

but mainly because the 47L wont eject out of the Farley action,,

 

[KWeigel]

I have a Stiller Tac 30 6.5x47 in an AICS 1.5 chassis for PRS type shooting but that case is too long to eject from my Farley action,,if the new Dasher brass can be improved as much as the 6BR to 6 Dasher I think it would be a fun project to see how a 6.5 Dasher +.080 would shoot,,it just might shoot better with some faster powders than the 47L and group tighter and hold better vertical,,and it might not,,

but mainly because the 47L wont eject out of the Farley action,,

Sounds like a fun project! Those little Farleys are great.

 

[Eric Leonard]

Sounds like a fun project! Those little Farleys are great.

I like it a lot myself,,

 

[Kiba]

I took a chronograph to make sure I was kind to the brass with all the time I had invested, well over 10 minutes , I didn`t want to alter $3000.00 worth of actions over $100.00 worth of brass and started and 32 grains and saw very slow readings, 32.5 was below the 2980 for the goal speed, I figured 33 would also not be there, as I was thinking 33.5 is where it would tighten up the verticle. I decided to go 33, and the first charge out of the Chargemaster was the 33.1 so I loaded 3, shot them into a nice knot, went back loaded 2 more and they walked right in there with the first 3. the velocity ended up at 2940 fps, but as my favorite saying about this endeavor is "It ain`t a race"
The barrel is close to 27" and is an 8 twist Brux. Its the same barrel I shot at Piedmont NC in Lt class as a 6BR, I believe in 2010.

Thanks Tim, just wanted an approximate velocity so I had a little more data to use as reference for my own load development. You're right, it's not a race. I'm not targeting a specific speed either, just a safe node... although I am hoping that node will end up in the mid to high 2900's with the 105 hybrids. My initial conservative loads I tested this weekend topped out at 2830fps with 105 Hybrids at 30.2gr Varget so I still have a ways to go. Also need to find out how far I can push the 87 Vmax with the gun as that will be the primary ammo since it's mostly going to get used as a long range ground squirrel blaster. Had those up to 3120fps on the first trip out but I know that's very conservative as well. The good news is the 87 Vmax wasn't blowing up which several users here told me is what would probably happen with the 7.7 twist barrel.

Hope someone will chime in who has removed material from their extractor.

Regarding modifying the extractor and having it work with different cases... I can't speak for all actions but removing 0.005-0.010" from the back side of the extractor hook to accommodate the thicker Norma Dasher case rim is very minimal material removal and should not effect the extraction of any other cases with slightly thinner case rims. The standard 6BR case is supposed to be 0.0539" to the rim, PPC cases are supposed to be 0.0591", .308 is 0.0539", and my Norma Dasher cases are all measuring about 0.062-0.065". So even if your extractor is "tight" on a standard BR case you're only looking at about 0.010" of material removal at most needed to make it work.

Removing 0.005-0.010" off the extractor hook may take away a little bit of primary extraction assist when you run thinner rimmed cases through that action as the bolt handle will rotate open a little further and be a little further back back along the primary extraction camming surface before the modified extractor grabs a case with a thinner rim, but it certainly won't prevent it from extracting those cases. On my rifle I only had to remove 0.008" from the extractor for it to grab the Norma Dasher cases with 100% reliability and it still grabs .308 and 6.5 Creedmoor cases just fine-- you can't even notice or feel a difference when running the bolt. My 6 Norma Dasher is running in an Accuracy International AE Mk3 by the way.

In my case it was only one extractor to modify vs. modifying 500 cases, and removing 0.008" from one extractor was a lot more time efficient than machining the rims on 500 cases.

Of course, if Shiraz cuts the rims back a bit on the next batch to a "standard" rim thickness then the brass should work with any extractor-- only question at that point is if removing that extra material will have a negative impact on primer pocket life.

Shiraz, did you give Norma a target rim thickness number for the third batch? Just wondering if you're going to pull it all the way down to 0.054" which is more common or go with 0.059" which is what the PPC cases are. Personally I'd leave it as-is at 0.062-0.065, but given the amount and volume of the complaining about the thick rims that was posted here a couple months back I can understand the change for the third batch for standard shell holder & extractor compatibility... even if it may have a negative impact on primer pocket life.

 

[tclaunch]

I only fired 40 of the new cases, but annealed, sonic cleaned them and sized them to just allow bolt to close with slight resistance, and when priming I held my breath. They all had great feel on the second priming. 33.1 and 2940 was not anything they couldn`t easily handle.