Floating dies

[three percent]

You do not need to float anything except the neck bushing. The case body is in alignment with the die body and the floating neck bushing aligns with the case neck. The case body and the case neck alignment is established by the chamber. The runout between the case body and neck will be less than .002" TIR. No need to own a concentricity gauge.

Good info thank you

 

[three percent]

I'll bite, fool that I am. Once a press ram starts to apply downward force on a case, that case becomes pretty much pinned in place. Any small, lateral force which may result from a misalignment with the die is now insufficient to relocate the case inside the case holder. Allowing the die itself to float and accommodate a misalignment at least doubles the chance that the pair, together, will align better. The more degrees of freedom bringing together two diametrically opposed contact points, the better the alignment.

No matter how it gets there, the die is going to end up either inside, outside, or all around the brass., depending on the operation. It's a bit like a ballroom dance; one person leads, one person follows, in the end, it's the partnership that matters most.

Makes great sense.

 

[three percent]

You do not need to float anything except the neck bushing. The case body is in alignment with the die body and the floating neck bushing aligns with the case neck. The case body and the case neck alignment is established by the chamber. The runout between the case body and neck will be less than .002" TIR. No need to own a concentricity gauge.

This is what Ive always done but boyd Allen's post the other day and reading up on the rubber o ring trick got me to thinking.what if
Ok thanks alot

 

[three percent]

This is why I like this place there are some extremely smart folks I can learn from without getting crucified.
Thanks y'all

 

[Bill Norris]

This is why I like this place there are some extremely smart folks I can learn from without getting crucified.
Thanks y'all

The only dumb question is the one that was not asked.

 

[BoydAllen]

This is what Ive always done but boyd Allen's post the other day and reading up on the rubber o ring trick got me to thinking.what if
Ok thanks alotF

This is what Ive always done but boyd Allen's post the other day and reading up on the rubber o ring trick got me to thinking.what if
Ok thanks alot

If you have a bushing die, and a concentricity gauge, I have a little experiment for you. Take one of your fired cases that has been removed from the action carefully so that a strong ejector has not banged the neck oval, and measure the concentricity as fired. Next pull the bushing and size the case and measure concentricity. My guess is that it will be close to identical to the fired case. Next take a similar fired case, that you have verified the runout of, and put the bushing back in the die before sizing it, size it and measure the concentricity. Beyond that, If you have a one piece die, pull the expander/decapping stem size a case and measure the runout. You guys need to stop running to the internet when you can easily and inexpensively do your own testing. BTW, I have done these tests repeatedly. Adding the bushing increases runout. The least consistent runout that you will get for turne necks is with a custom one piece die that has a specific neck diameter such that no, or almost no expanding is required to get to your desired ID. I have tested all of this. You guys need to start verifying your own stuff. It will give you confidence in your process, that being told will not.

 

[K22]

Disclaimer I've been living under a rock far as precision or competition loading so I'm trying to catch up . thanks for any feedback

A rock may not necessarily be a bad place to be.

You can take this reloading "hobby" to a painful level, or you can simplify it to produce reliable and accurate reloads. The level of precision needed is dictated by the shooting discipline you engage in.

The secret to "happy" reloading is to define your standards and work towards that goal. Once there, don't go into the weeds looking for the silver bullet to gain a few 0.1" tighter group. Instead, work on becoming a better marksman.

In my experience, most successful shooting comes down to one's ability to read mirage, wind, and have the mental discipline to repeat the key fundamentals, shot after shot with minimum variation. I can tell that a shooter that can do that will outshoot the "floating die" crowd any time.

I saw it 30 years in precision pistol competition, guys shooting cheaper Hi Standard or Ruger pistols with Remington standard velocity in rimfire competition constantly outshooting guys with S&W 41's and expensive foreign pistols with match grade Ely ammo. The former guys developed a high level of marksmanship skill, the latter guys try to buy their way to the top - it never worked that I saw.

 

[Uncle Ed]

How to visually check for neck runout without a gauge.

 

[BoydAllen]

So if you verified all of this why did you make a post talking about it with zero out come.hmmm
Not my kind of folks we I come from.we like to help people down here
Sounds kinda sorry to me

Did you actually read the whole post? I doubt it. At the end I described the results. Taking people to task because their answers are not exactly what you want is extremely bad manners.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Redding Reloading Equipment

Thank you for visiting Redding-reloading.com. We are currently in the process of bringing you a new website experience! For immediate assistance, please call 607-753-3331.  For Technical Issues techline@redding-reloading.com  For General Inquiries info@redding-reloading.com *

www.redding-reloading.com

Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)​

We have conducted many tests over the years on the various factors contributing to concentricity problems with bottleneck cases. We have repeatedly found a definite correlation between the uniformity of the brass (or lack of it) and the resulting concentricity of the neck to the body of the case.

An interesting experiment also revealed that neck turning of brass that was intentionally sorted as non-uniform, showed little or no concentricity improvement when used in standard S.A.A.M.I. spec chambers. Conversely brass that was sorted and selected for uniformity remained uniform and concentric with or without a neck turning operation.

 

[Chris Edmondson]

Redding Reloading Equipment

Thank you for visiting Redding-reloading.com. We are currently in the process of bringing you a new website experience! For immediate assistance, please call 607-753-3331.  For Technical Issues techline@redding-reloading.com  For General Inquiries info@redding-reloading.com *

www.redding-reloading.com

Tech Line & Tips (FAQs)​

We have conducted many tests over the years on the various factors contributing to concentricity problems with bottleneck cases. We have repeatedly found a definite correlation between the uniformity of the brass (or lack of it) and the resulting concentricity of the neck to the body of the case.

An interesting experiment also revealed that neck turning of brass that was intentionally sorted as non-uniform, showed little or no concentricity improvement when used in standard S.A.A.M.I. spec chambers. Conversely brass that was sorted and selected for uniformity remained uniform and concentric with or without a neck turning operation.

Uniformity is quite difficult to determine, particularly with a large sample set. Forget about determining circularity to start with, how do we know if a piece is worth turning or not based on it's starting uniformity?

 

[BoydAllen]

Post it up.your fancy french speaking ain't on my terms let's see it.and no I don't remember what the post said cause I obviously made my own post about something similar .let's here it
I'm all ears

If you can't understand what I wrote, there would be little use in repeating myself. I think that others were able to understand given the likes. In the future I will avoid confusing you by avoiding answering any of your questions. Wouldn't want to upset you.

 

[Old Navy]

How to visually check for neck runout without a gauge.

That is so cool!

 

[DiffEQ]

The only dumb question is the one that was not asked.

The only question I didn't see asked here is, " @three percent , did you miss taking your meds? "

In answer to the OP, I use both floating and rigidly fixed dies.
I also use a range of cheap to obscenely expensive dies.
Neither floating or fixed dies make better ammo. It's your technique that makes the difference, and this comes from using your equipment and understanding its limits and effectiveness.
Physics and Newtonian mechanics. C'est ce que @BoydAllen écrivait.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

TECH TIP: Use Rubber O-Rings with Sizing Dies for Less Run-Out « Daily Bulletin

Here's an inexpensive tip that can help you load straighter ammo, with slightly better measured concentricity (i.e. less run-out) on the case necks and bullets. Simply use a rubber O-Ring on the underside of the die locking ring.

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

I need to read through everything again now to see where this thread went off the rails but I suspect DiffEQ might be on to something.

 

[jimmymac]

I have so much slop in my press that the brass has no other option than to be centered in my die.

 

[AlNyhus]

I have so much slop in my press that the brass has no other option than to be centered in my die.

Jim, sooooo many people miss this important fundamental.

My well used, loosey-goosey Partner press is one of the key things for my hand loading. That and a 59 cent 'o' ring......

Good shootin' -Al

 

[jimmymac]

Jim, sooooo many people miss this important fundamental.

My well used, loosey-goosey Partner press is one of the key things for my hand loading. That and a 59 cent 'o' ring......

Good shootin' -Al

I’ve seen a lot of Partner presses in action at matches. I like mine.

 

[AlNyhus]

I’ve seen a lot of Partner presses in action at matches. I like mine.

Best press ever for accuracy loading.

 

[K22]

10-4 makes sense .I'm just trying to have everything up to snuff.kinda Hard to compete against a standard that not everyone knows.just asking a simple question and seeing what comes about sorry I asked

Please do not take offense - there are no dumb questions, only dumb answers.

I was just trying to be encouraging to you and obviously I did a poor job of it. Sometimes being "under the rock" isn't so bad if your results meet your needs. That's all. In other words, "don't fix it if ain't broken." The only point I was trying to make was the most significant variable in shooting that I've experienced is the shooter, that includes me.

I started loading in a very rural area, no internet, no gun clubs, no mentor, just an old Lyman Manual to guide me. I made ever mistake you can imagine. Today, new shooters have an advantage of a wide array of resources to help.

In addition, today, we have forums like this than can help. You shouldn't hesitate to ask any question. The only way we all learn is to ask questions and of course through experience we gain over time. It is always wise for any of us to evaluate advice relative to is there a need to change and if so, test it before jumping in wholesale.

Another issue to consider, advice will vary depending on the shooting discipline which is to be expected. The ultra-precision game of benchrest shooting is a different world than some of us shoot in. Not all shooters need to go to those extremes to produce safe and very serviceable reloads.

Best wishes on your continued journey in the shooting sports. If I can help, don't hesitate to PM me and I will share my 50+ years of experience with you. But I'm not "expert", I can just share what has worked for me and what hasn't and maybe help you not make the mistakes I made.