Flat Based bullets vs Boat tails

[tonedaddy]

A friend of mine recently told me that at distances of up to 150 yards flat base spire point bullets tend to fly and group better than HPBT bullets, any of you with info on this? He said the HPBT settle down after 150 yards, your thoughts?

 

[ShootDots]

I used to run with several people who shot 100 and 200 yard "Light / Heavy Gun" benchrest. They ALL shot 6 PPC and they ALL shot 62-68gr. Flatbase bullets... Their groups, if you won, were in the 0's and 1's... This kind of shooting is almost defying belief, yet I saw it with my own eyes.. I have not shot with them in YEARS, so I can not say for a certainty anymore>>>but 20+ years ago, that is what they shot..

 

[Preacher]

Seems like most of the BR shooters use flat base bullets, so there must be something to it...

 

[GSPV]

There are "boat tailed" bullets being used in short range benchrest. But, they are a very tiny boat tail and the bullet is, otherwise, a flat-based, blunt-nosed design.

Some folks, me included, find blunter-nosed bullets easier to tune.

 

[JDMock]

There are many changes in short-range BR. The most used bullets now are the double ogive short BT bullets like the ones Bart Sauter, Lowell Hottenstein, and George Ulrich sell. Also, many make their own bullets (like Larry Costa) and most prefer a BT design in the cut-rifled barrels. Good shooting...James

 

[mikecr]

Given no wind, FB bullets hold higher accuracy potential -at all distances.
3 reasons:
-They release cleaner at the muzzle
-They're easier to consistently make
-You can run with lower twist/Sg

But, there is always wind

 

[BoydAllen]

A couple of things worth noting: Some time back, a well known benchrest bullet maker and top level shooter told me words to the effect that one cannot simply pair a BT with any ogive design. He has a lot of dies, and makes both BT and FB bullets that shoot well, so I tend to give this credence. Looking at the wide variety of successful FB designs, I do not think that their design is as critical. Also, looking at samples of older short range BT designs, I would say that they tended to have longer BTs than the designs that are currently popular. The last factor is the shift to cut barrels in short range benchrest. Cut barrels are not generally subject to significant errors in twist going down the bore, and they are lapped for finish and perhaps taper, but not overall dimension, which button barrels can be. On average, I think that they are less likely to have slight tight and loose spots that would present a challenge for the maintenance of obduration for the BT design, which does not convert pressure on the base of the bullet to radial pressure where it contacts the bore to the same extent as do FB designs.

 

[jonbearman]

Boyd you nailed it.I have found that shooting flat based at 100 and out to 200 yards seem to do slightly better than boat tails.I have tried them(boatails) and some shot ok and one type my friend makes didnt shoot to well.I am back to my arnette bullets for now and they shoot good.

 

[JDMock]

Here is a list of some mediocre shooters who shoot BT bullets:
Tony Boyer, Gene Bukys, Larry Costa, Joe Krupa, Lowell & Ken Hottenstein, Lee Hachigian, Dave Coots, Gary Ocock, Lester Bruno, Lou Murdica (shoots both BT and FB), Bart Sauter, Billy Stevens, and many other top shooters. If FB bullets gave more accuracy, I can assure you that these men would use them. Good shooting...James

 

[jonbearman]

To be clear that is my own experience with my 2 6br riles and one encore pistol with a shilen select match on it. I dont for one minute that the top shooters arent getting their best accuracy from boat tails as they would know more from the amount of testing they do.

 

[GSPV]

I have some Barts and some Tuckers that I like. Just didn't have the FB to shoot them. Ordered FB on my new reamer to, hopefully, be able to shoot either FB or the little bitty BT.

 

[CatShooter]

The itty bitty boat-tails make seating easy, but they do nothing for the BC. They fly like flat based bullets.

 

[BoydAllen]

I do not believe that BC is much of a consideration for bullet selection for 1-200 yd benchrest competition. I believe that the BTs that are used have been selected for how they group, period, end of story...

 

[spclark]

The most used bullets now are the double ogive short BT bullets....

Mr. Mock I have a question: by double ogive, would you mean something on the order of what Berger's newer Hybrid bullet designs utilize?

I'm no BR shooter but if there's an overlap in technology that may impact long range target practices, I'd like to know!

 

[GSPV]

I'm not Mr. Mock, but, Yes. They have a more streamlined ogive in the back blending to a more blunt ogive up front.

 

[WyleWD]

Personally I prefer BT's to FB bullets. Sorry, but I just can't buy into the "they settle down" theory, if they shoot competitively at 200, then my experience is that they also shoot well at 100yds.

It is my belief that the BT (even the itty bitty BT) bullets are more forgiving it you have a crown that is a little out of whack. Thence give a more clean release from the muzzle.

All that being said, there are some great FB bullets for sure and some shooters just shoot better if they are comfortable with their loads, bullets, equipment, etc. That in itself will give one enough confidence to shoot "slightly better". JMHO. WD

 

[mikecr]

No, it's been known forever that FB bullets release cleaner at the muzzle. It's the very basis of rebated BTs to overcome this issue and still gain BT BC.
That point blank competitors are moving to BTs really means a better balance in release & twist -vs- wind drift is within their reach. No extreme applies with this.

 

[finnaddict]

Here is a video/animation of a Berger VLD showing pitch and yaw.

Flat bases have not really worked at my expectations. BT have been much better and I now use the rebatted BT D46 which performs best for me at any range.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pF8W5liSRc

 

[butchlambert]

What's wrong? BT don't shoot better for me! I might need to change my name to Tony, Bart, Billy, Lowell, or whatever.

 

[spclark]

I'm not Mr. Mock, but, Yes. They have a more streamlined ogive in the back blending to a more blunt ogive up front.

OK thanks for that, then that's the reverse of what Berger's doing: their Hybrid designs feature a VLD (longer radius, or "secant" style in a conventional design) ogive up-front with the more easily tuned tangent ogive where a bullet meets the lands.