FL sizning die issue, cant push shoulder back

[Never Forget]

I'm reloading for 338 Lapua using a Lee FL sizing die (this may be part of my problem). The most I can bump my shoulder back is .0015 and that's with a fair cam over. I realize I may not need to bump it any further but I've had a couple rounds that would not allow the bolt to close or a very tight closer, feels like I'm forming the brass when I close the bolt. After sizing a couple cases I try them all in the gun, they all work no problem. Once they are loaded the problem is noticed at the range.

I have a Lyman neck sizing die and had the same issue. This is a factory Savage. After the round is fired the bolt opens as it should.

So 2 questions, what is going on? And in order to get more shoulder set back should I surface grind a couple thou off the face of the shell holder allowing me a little more space or should I face the bottom of the die off in a lathe.

 

[dedogs]

Could be a couple of things, but the simple fix is as you mentioned. Take a little off the shell holder, NOT the die. You may wish to sell the die at a later date. Is your shellholder a Lee and does it measure the appropriate deck height. Some dont. Also have you checked trim length after sizing? dedogs

 

[Never Forget]

Could be a couple of things, but the simple fix is as you mentioned. Take a little off the shell holder, NOT the die. You may wish to sell the die at a later date. Is your shellholder a Lee and does it measure the appropriate deck height. Some dont. Also have you checked trim length after sizing? dedogs

Shell holder is a Lee, I have not measured it, where would I find #'s to compare the measurements too? Cases have been trimmed.

 

[MrBottleneck]

Being you said you try them all in the rifle and the cases all work fine but, the problem arises after loading it sounds to me like a length issue.
Have you used a modified case and a stoney point guage with the bullet your shooting to see what your coal is too lands?
Im just speculating but, if the problem doesnt arise until after you seat a bullet it sounds length related or something related to that process and not case sizing.

 

[Never Forget]

Being you said you try them all in the rifle and the cases all work fine but, the problem arises after loading it sounds to me like a length issue.
Have you used a modified case and a stoney point guage with the bullet your shooting to see what your coal is too lands?
Im just speculating but, if the problem doesnt arise until after you seat a bullet it sounds length related or something related to that process and not case sizing.

Sorry, I really should have mentioned that. Yes I checked the depth of the lands with a modified case and am loading to magazine length. I have quite the jump going, think about .080 in order to fit it ion the mag.

 

[MrBottleneck]

Oh ok.
Do you use a RCBS precision mic or anything to determine bump or are you just chambering each sized case as a test?

 

[Never Forget]

Oh ok.
Do you use a RCBS precision mic or anything to determine bump or are you just chambering each sized case as a test?

I use another Hornady gage to determine bump. I started chambering each round once I had to disassemble a couple because they wouldn't chamber. Before they are loaded they chamber pretty easy, no excessive anything. Quite honestly I'm shocked when I get to the range and have issue's.

 

[dedogs]

What does the chamber neck measure in diam. And again, have you checked trim length? dedogs

 

[BoydAllen]

Color the whole exterior (with a big marker or dykem) of the hard to chamber loaded rounds and then chamber them again. I am betting that they will show scrapes at the base of their necks. (donuts)

 

[MrBottleneck]

I bet Boyd has nailed it.

 

[6milphil]

I had a similar problem at the range today with my factory savage 6.5 Creedmoor. I had a couple of rounds that were hard to chamber and then 9 that wouldn't chamber at all. I came home and started measuring my ammo and everything was exactly where it should have been, .003 shoulder bump and .030 jump. Tried some factory ammo,
they wouldn't chamber either and I noticed scratch marks on the bullets bearing surface.
Apparently after only 33 rounds since it's last thorough cleaning it had built up enough crud in the throat to cause issues.

 

[dkhunt14]

How often and how hard do you clean the Gun? A 338 Lapua and slow powders can build carbon up quickly. Could be in the throat or neck area of chamber. Matt

 

[hogpatrol]

How often and how hard do you clean the Gun? A 338 Lapua and slow powders can build carbon up quickly. Could be in the throat or neck area of chamber. Matt

^^^^^
This


The fact that they chamber ok without the bullet and then tight with the bullet, I came to the same conclusion, carbon ring. I would borescope it before taking any action on the die or shell holder.

 

[Never Forget]

^^^^^
This


The fact that they chamber ok without the bullet and then tight with the bullet, I came to the same conclusion, carbon ring. I would borescope it before taking any action on the die or shell holder.

Now there's a thought, I was shooting quite a bit of Retumbo and haven't cleaned it much as I've been having some accuracy issue's, trying to let it copper up a bit. Turned out to be loose scope rail screws, 3rd time, lock tited now. When shooting Retumbo my case necks were coated black soot.

I don't think its donuts as this is only the 2nd firing on Lapua brass, they don't form that fast right? I've never experienced donuts. The neck diameter has plenty of room, couple thou clear. And to confirm cases have been trimmed. I have 1pc of brass laying on my bench that I ruined when I took it apart, crushed it in my impact hammer. I could not close the bolt on that round, no way, now that its apart even though there are grooves all down the case from the collet it now chambers. It is at trimmed length.

I just sized 18 more cases for next weekend, all chambered like butter. If I come across any tight ones I will remove and color them and see where they are rubbing. I hope it's just a carbon ring from Retumbo, good thing I'm done with that powder, very very dirty and not so great accuracy even when things were tight.

I don't mind having problems, its kinda fun figuring them out, but at $1.39 per shot it hurts a bit more than I would like.

Thanks for all the input, will post results next weekend.

 

[SheepDog]

What are you doing between the sizing process and loading a finished round in the chamber? After sizing it fits the chamber; you put a primer in, fill with powder and seat the bullet. Seating the bullet is wear the problem is introduced. Are the inside of the neck chamfered enough? Does the bullet seat easily? are you putting enough force on the case when seating the bullet to deform the shoulder? is your seating die set to crimp? If it is set to crimp readjust so it doesn't crimp the case. I am thinking the the case crimps the mouth before you finish seating the bullet and the extra pressure is expanding the shoulder.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Do as Boyd suggested, also make sure your not jamming the bullet. I had a guy doing this, was .050" in the lands and was complaining about tight bolt close on some. I assume some soft seated easier than others.

 

[Never Forget]

What are you doing between the sizing process and loading a finished round in the chamber? After sizing it fits the chamber; you put a primer in, fill with powder and seat the bullet. Seating the bullet is wear the problem is introduced. Are the inside of the neck chamfered enough? Does the bullet seat easily? are you putting enough force on the case when seating the bullet to deform the shoulder? is your seating die set to crimp? If it is set to crimp readjust so it doesn't crimp the case. I am thinking the the case crimps the mouth before you finish seating the bullet and the extra pressure is expanding the shoulder.

I'll double check the chamfer but I think they should be good. Bullet seats as it should with .0015 neck tension. My die doesn't crimp nor do I crimp these rounds after. I will keep a close eye on this though, if I feel anything out of the ordinary I'll mark that case and see what happens.

 

[M-61]

Shell holder is a Lee, I have not measured it, where would I find #'s to compare the measurements too? Cases have been trimmed.

shell holder height= .125"

BUT I would clean, size and then chamber the empty brass. My guess it is good. If you are seating to mag length I doubt you are anywhere near the lands as you say.
Do you clean your brass with SS pins? Do you use any lube on the inside case necks before seating the bullets in that spotless neck?

 

[Never Forget]

shell holder height= .125"

Not to often I need a depth mic at home but glad I have one, mine measures .1242. So its ever so slightly off but in the direction that could help me.

 

[M-61]

Missed your post # 7 sorry.
Three 10 thousandths is not your problem and as you say in the right direction anyway.
Since the empty brass chambers then the problem likely lies with the bullet seating. I'll go with the neck chamfering or the too clean necks for starters.
You have a ball mike to I assume to come up with the neck tension figure. The magic marker stated above will help. And bullet seating pressure feels OK?