FL bushing dies, will I get a doughnut?

[ShooterB]

I typically buy Forster FL dies and have them honed, it’s always worked for me. I picked up a 30 Nosler and Forster doesn’t have this cartridge yet. I’m going to try the Redding type S FL die but had a couple questions. I plan on using the button expander and don’t want to be limited with how far I seat the bullet into the case.

Will I eventually get a doughnut with these bushing dies?

I’ve heard .001 and .002 subtracted from loaded case mouth. Is either better for a factory chamber Christensen Arms rifle?

Thanks for any help.

 

[FeMan]

I have a 30-28 with 5 firings on my brass. I went with the Redding bushing dies. I did a light trim on the necks and light cut into the shoulder initially. So far so good with no donuts detected.

I don't recall what bushing I am using, but would go at least 0.002 under. The brass should spring back and your neck "tension" should come out a little less than the bushing reduction.

 

[jepp2]

I’ve heard .001 and .002 subtracted from loaded case mouth.

Kind of depends on what neck tension you desire and if you anneal.

 

[Bc'z]

Here's something I've been pondering....
If your using a bushing die, and the bushing dosen't size the whole neck because they are tapered at the bottom only sizing upper portion of the neck, would you feel the doughnut or even know its there??

 

[Nightraider]

A bushing FL die will not size a neck to fill length, leaving room for a doughnut. That will prevent the doughnut from touching the bullet.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

The expander ball in it will push it to the outside as well

 

[Bc'z]

The expander ball in it will push it to the outside as well

Me no expander ballz.

 

[BenPerfected]

I typically buy Forster FL dies and have them honed, it’s always worked for me. I picked up a 30 Nosler and Forster doesn’t have this cartridge yet. I’m going to try the Redding type S FL die but had a couple questions. I plan on using the button expander and don’t want to be limited with how far I seat the bullet into the case.

Will I eventually get a doughnut with these bushing dies?

I’ve heard .001 and .002 subtracted from loaded case mouth. Is either better for a factory chamber Christensen Arms rifle?

Thanks for any help.

I have a few custom full lengthen Forester Dies. Tried to order another and they said they were out of the custom die business. I have moved on.
Ben

 

[rwj]

Here's something I've been pondering....
If your using a bushing die, and the bushing dosen't size the whole neck because they are tapered at the bottom only sizing upper portion of the neck, would you feel the doughnut or even know its there??

A small diameter hole gauge (https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/86425345) makes it easy to detect donuts and their depth.

 

[ShooterB]

Kind of depends on what neck tension you desire and if you anneal.

I do anneal, with the Forster dies I’ve always gone .002, so I’m thinking of going with a .002 bushing and using the sizing button. To me that sounds good but Redding’s website says .001. I also wonder if the difference between .001 and .002 is that important if I will be using a sizing button in the die? Won’t the size button in a sense be determine the tension?

 

[ShooterB]

The expander ball in it will push it to the outside as well

I wondered about this too.

 

[jepp2]

but Redding’s website says .001

Yes, but in the fine print they also say:

The above methods of determining bushing size require that the cases being sized have a fairly uniform neck wall thickness or have been neck turned. If the neck wall thickness varies more than 0.002", it may be necessary to use a bushing a couple of thousandths smaller than your calculations indicate, and then use a size button in the die to determine the final inside neck diameter.

If I had to pick a default neck tension, I would probably pick 0.002". Using the 0.001" undersize bushing can work, but if you have much/any springback, you might have less than 0.001" neck tension. But of course, only you can pick what works best for your rifle.

And then there is the theory that if you use a bushing without an expander, all the irregularities are now on the inside of the case neck.

 

[Willie]

It's been mentioned here many times, but I'll say it again. Try a standard FL die, I prefer Forester, without the expander ball. They will size the full neck, usually bringing it down .003" to .005" under caliber. Then run an expander mandrel to get the tension you desire.

The mandrel will push differences to outside of case. Mandrels and die holders are readily available and the mandrels come in .0005" increments, so you can fine tune your tension.

Although I turn all my brass, I've migrated from my bushing dies over to FL dies and mandrels. No doughnuts and improved ES. It's an extra step ( and the necks need lube, I prefer Dry Imperial) but it's worth it to me.

 

[Uncle Ed]

The Redding bushing die FAQ tells if you do not turn the necks and the neck thickness varies .002 or more to use the dies expander. They also tell you to use a bushing .002 to .003 smaller and push the irregularities to the outside of the neck.

Would the area between the red lines below be the "donut hole"

 

[Ranger007]

The problem with the bushings is there is open space between the bushing and the die itself. That allows for material flow. Also, the bushings never seem to go all the way down to the neck/shoulder due to various factors. This allows that area of brass to get treated differently than the rest of the neck thus resulting in a donut.

 

[Ranger007]

It's been mentioned here many times, but I'll say it again. Try a standard FL die, I prefer Forester, without the expander ball. They will size the full neck, usually bringing it down .003" to .005" under caliber. Then run an expander mandrel to get the tension you desire.

The mandrel will push differences to outside of case. Mandrels and die holders are readily available and the mandrels come in .0005" increments, so you can fine tune your tension.

Although I turn all my brass, I've migrated from my bushing dies over to FL dies and mandrels. No doughnuts and improved ES. It's an extra step ( and the necks need lube, I prefer Dry Imperial) but it's worth it to me.

B I N G O!

 

[Uncle Ed]

As long as the Forster expander is adjusted up and down properly you do not need to size the case twice using an expander die. The Forster expander enters the case neck when the neck is held and centered in the neck of the die.

Below the 6.5 Guys are getting less neck runout with a Forster FL die than with a Redding bushing die.

 

[ShooterB]

It's been mentioned here many times, but I'll say it again. Try a standard FL die, I prefer Forester, without the expander ball. They will size the full neck, usually bringing it down .003" to .005" under caliber. Then run an expander mandrel to get the tension you desire.

The mandrel will push differences to outside of case. Mandrels and die holders are readily available and the mandrels come in .0005" increments, so you can fine tune your tension.

Although I turn all my brass, I've migrated from my bushing dies over to FL dies and mandrels. No doughnuts and improved ES. It's an extra step ( and the necks need lube, I prefer Dry Imperial) but it's worth it to me.

I’ve thought about that and do use a lot of Forster FL dies. They don’t make the bench rest FL die for this cartridge and they were the only FL die company that I know of who offered the honing. This happened with my 338 Ultra as well. I ended up using an off the shelf RCBS FL sizer for it. It has given excellent results but it really works the brass so I was just looking at other alternatives for this one. I’ve even considered a Whidden custom die for this but need to atleast load and shoot a few first. I’ve avoided bushing dies for 25 years but now feel like I have to atleast consider them.

 

[ShooterB]

As long as the Forster expander is adjusted up and down properly you do not need to size the case twice using an expander die. The Forster expander enters the case neck when the neck is held and centered in the neck of the die.

Below the 6.5 Guys are getting less neck runout with a Forster FL die than with a Redding bushing die.

yes, you have to love Forster. I just feel a little let down by them right now.

 

[Uncle Ed]

yes, you have to love Forster. I just feel a little let down by them right now.

Did you try putting Viagra on your expander and not be let down?