First Post, suggestion for 223 varmint rifle

[ericbc7]

I have a Tikka T3 Sporter in .223 with 24" 1:8 twist barrel. Smooth bolt, Sako barrel, astounding trigger and great stock. At $1,400-$1,500 it is a decent value. I liked it so much I bought another one in 6.5X55 SE.

 

[Geno C]

I have a Sako 75 varmint and it shoots in the .3s with Hornady and Fiocchi factory 50gr vmax loads. Ejection being a little weak is about my only complaint. For me it has one of the most comfortable factory stocks I've even seen.

He goofy dovetail on the reciever is a bit out of the norm but rings can be found. Not a big deal but something to consider

 

[fourbore]

The sako 75 is no longer, but; I finally got a look at a wood stock sako 85 and I was very impressed. If I was still working (now retired), I would want one for sure. If the need arises for something else, I sure like the looks and reputation. It is a bit modernized, but appears well engineered and with a tip top finished. Nice nice wood to compliment the metal. Maybe someday.

 

[tjtjwdad]

I have a Cooper in 221 FB with a 14-twist barrel and it will shoot 52 grain pills with it so I doubt a 1-12 will be a limiting factor for that range in a 223. Speaking of Cooper, as some suggested it is probably the best custom rifle that is commercially produced, they're good. However, most Cooper rifles in varmint calibers are single-feed so if you're looking for a repeater, you may have to look else where. They [Cooper] are starting to put some varmint caliber rifles in repeater actions, you'll just have to check it out.

CZ527, I've had one for several years in CZ American in 204 Ruger and it serves it purpose well, a walk around carry gun. Mine didn't shoot to well out of the box but once the barrel was free-floated and the stock bedded it became a "instant" hammer. I bore scoped my CZ barrel and it looks as smooth as any Krieger barrel it shares the safe with.

 

[fourbore]

I got my gun and like to report back. If, I did not already say it: Thank you for the advise.

I went for the CZ Varmint with tapered and floated 24" barrel and 1/12 twist. This is a discontinued gun. I found one, on line and after quite a long wait it has arrived. The gun is really not at all that heavy for a varmint model. The stock is very nice walnut with some attractive figure in the butt. I should try to adjust the un-set trigger pull, but set is very nice and I may just go ahead use that all the time. I mounted a 6-18x Leupold that was on sale at Cabelas with the cds vertical turret. The price was right and I look at the cds as a freebie to play with. The scope is very clear, fine cross hairs with an adjustable objective.

I cleaned the barrel with a bore snake and went off to the range today. I think I really got lucky! I started with Fiocci 50 grain polymer tip. Two shots at 50 yards to get zeroed. The three shots at 100. I stopped and saved the target after three. I could see the group in the scope and I had to save that! I measured later 0.5 c-c. I shot 5 more at another target and that measured 0.55 inch. At home I transferred the three holes from the first group onto the 2nd target and all 8 shots fall within 0.55 inch! That is a first for me! I could have quit and gone home and brushed and clean the barrel. I need to buy some supplies. Well, I need to stock up on that Fiocci load. I stayed and shot 10 more rounds.

Next was 5 Hornady VMax at 100. That measured 0.85 inch. I does not sound bad, but it is very noticeable difference just eye balling the paper. I had hoped for better from 40 grain, but after going past the cash register, I was not so hot on Vmax anyway. I know better than to write these off after one group. Given the cost, this maybe my last box of vmax.

Due to some discouraging words on how 55gr would work in 12 twist, I purchased a box of PMC Bronze 55 FMJ-BT to try for myself. I fired 5 shots at 100 yards and that came in at 1.05 inches. One group for the lowest cost ammo is not a case study. I dont plan on any more 55gr experiments. I have no use for that load, beyond curiosity.

That is it. Twenty shots and I am a happy camper.

 

[tjtjwdad]

I'm not familiar with the PMC "bronze" bullet ammo, but for those solid type/style bullets, if they have a longer bearing surface they may need a faster twist to stabilize them, regardless of the weight.

HTH,

 

[ericbc7]

ok 1 x 12 twist is limited but the biggest concern is that you are cleaning the bore with a "bore snake". do not under any non emergency circumstances use bore snakes or any cloth cleaning tools. These "ropes" collect abrasive particles and cannot prevent damage to bores. get a decent and simple cleaning rod - preferably a stainless one like Pro-shot or dewey. ask anyone here what rod should be used, and they will answer "not bore snake" i bet.

 

[fourbore]

ok 1 x 12 twist is limited but the biggest concern is that you are cleaning the bore with a "bore snake". do not under any non emergency circumstances use bore snakes or any cloth cleaning tools. These "ropes" collect abrasive particles and cannot prevent damage to bores. get a decent and simple cleaning rod - preferably a stainless one like Pro-shot or dewey. ask anyone here what rod should be used, and they will answer "not bore snake" i bet.

I will follow that advise. I heard the same issue for the bore snake with 22 pistol shooters. I stopped using them there. In my defense, I did use a brand new bore snake. I guess, if the snakes are bad for pistols and center fire rifles, I should stop using them in my 22LR rifles too. The small bores sure are harder to clean. I have a bore guide (well two, a big and a small). When I tried the small guide my 22 rod was too short. I also have a 17 rod that I can pull carefully through a 22 bbl and that was misplaced. Found it later that night. The 17 rod is plastic coated. I though coated was a good thing? I can use .20 brush and jag that seem easier to pull through with the 17 rod. I dont want to push the skinny 17 fearing it will flex and rub the barrel. I live midway between two Cabelas, maybe they carry a suitable rod and guide. I will try a forum search. This must be a common topic.

I hope I dont mislead anyone with my 55 grain results. Up until last week a 1 moa group would be good shooting for me. And that is all I get out of my 527 carbine and it serves me very well.

 

[Cyclops]

I have a Savage Model 12 VLP DBM in .233 with 1:7 twist 26" barrel.

Shoots well, with handloads it shoots competitively against 308s out to 1000 yards in FTR competition.

The rifle hasn't been modified except to fit a scope rail.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I have a Savage Model 12 VLP DBM in .233 with 1:7 twist 26" barrel.

Shoots well, with handloads it shoots competitively against 308s out to 1000 yards in FTR competition.

The rifle hasn't been modified except to fit a scope rail.

Expand on competitively if you would please, score, bullet. Do you have a winning combo? Just curious and would like to know just how good a 26" at 1000 performs.

 

[tjtjwdad]

I have a Savage Model 12 VLP DBM in .233 with 1:7 twist 26" barrel.

Shoots well, with handloads it shoots competitively against 308s out to 1000 yards in FTR competition.

The rifle hasn't been modified except to fit a scope rail.

Expand on competitively if you would please, score, bullet. Do you have a winning combo? Just curious and would like to know just how good a 26" at 1000 performs.

Exactly.

It's a well known fact that 22 cal bullets can shoot at 1000 yards but more often than not, they're 90 grain pills and require 1/7 twist barrels or faster. Furthermore, these bullets are-not a varmint style bullet and may not be the best application for varmint shooting, not to mention the cost.

Also, the OP's post was in regards to a varmint rifle and IMO, a 1/7 twist barrel may shoot light varmint pills but they're not the best optimized bullet for that purpose.

To the OP;

- The 224 & 243 cal bullet weights cover a broad range from varmints to long range target shooting. Is there a twist that can accommodate both? Probably. But I feel it wouldn't be the best or optimized for either one.

- So, in the case of these two calibers, its better to determine what the rifle is going to be used for.

- And last but not least; accuracy is in the eye of the beholder. To some a 1moa is the holy grail. To others its 1/4 or 1/8moa, or tighter. Its subjective.

HTH,

 

[dryhumor]

There is a Hornady 55gr SP ammo, P/N 80255, that shoots well in a 12 twist. Somewhere around $30 for a box of 50.

 

[Cyclops]

I have a Savage Model 12 VLP DBM in .233 with 1:7 twist 26" barrel.

Shoots well, with handloads it shoots competitively against 308s out to 1000 yards in FTR competition.

The rifle hasn't been modified except to fit a scope rail.

Expand on competitively if you would please, score, bullet. Do you have a winning combo? Just curious and would like to know just how good a 26" at 1000 performs.

Competitively means while it generally isn't the top scoring rifle it generally isn't the lowest scoring rifle.

24.7 gr Varget (equivalent) 80 gr A-Max projectiles in Norma cases.
The first shot this rifle fired at 1000 yards was in the 'X' ring.

It does struggle at 900 & 1000 yards as the wind increases, but so do some 308s (and their shooters).

My son shot this rifle & load for his first full season as a training rifle to a teenager. He learnt good shooting skills with this rifle. He's moving up to a Bardard actioned 308 for his second season and I might shoot the Savage in my first season of shooting.

 

[Thauglor]

I have a Tikka T3 Sporter in .223 with 24" 1:8 twist barrel. Smooth bolt, Sako barrel, astounding trigger and great stock. At $1,400-$1,500 it is a decent value. I liked it so much I bought another one in 6.5X55 SE.

I have the same, just bought the 6.5x55 first then got the 223

+1 more for the Tikkas

 

[waldo1979]

Im Partial to savage for factory rifles. Their line up is pretty amazing across the board (except the b-mag).

I haven't tried these factory loads but the 50gr Z-max/V-max is one of my better performers for .223 light bullets:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1836125052/fiocchi-extrema-ammunition-223-remington-50-grain-hornady-v-max-ammunition

Looks like hornadys sells it a "super performa" load with that bullet as well.

 

[GSRswapandslow]

tl:dr

i have a CZ kevlar in 204 and a american in 222. the 204 shoots excellent, the 222 shoots terribly. CZ seems to be very hit/miss on it's center fire barrels.

If you were considering spending $1800 on a sako, i'd spend that much (or less) on a used Cooper, FOR SURE.

If you want to build a cheap, semi-custom setup to how YOU like it....there's always the option to get a Rem Model 7 action for $300 off Brownells...toss on a $200 Jewell....spin on a Remmage barre from NSS and toss that in a boyds or bell and carlson stock. It'd be cheap, but most likely shoot VERY well. You could spec your barrel length, twist, and possibly freebore that way. You could be in the whole gun around what the LRPV cost

 

[centershot]

Waldo--I have a Savage .223 you could have for $400. 300 rounds through it. I am not a Savage guy.