First hand experience with 75 bthp on chucks

[FrogFire7]

I have plenty of groundhog rifles that are bolt action. Now I have an AR and would like to use it for more than propping up a shelf in my gun safe. The barrel is a lightly used competition barrel that the previous owner used for mid range. Should work just fine for groundhogs, if I use a bullet that expands.

Also have an AR upper that is 6mm and 26" long, I don't believe the platform is an issue at this point.

 

[dantiff2]

Get'em out and get some dirt and hog hair/blood on them. They aren't meant to be safe queens ; )

 

[FrogFire7]

Get'em out and get some dirt and hog hair/blood on them. They aren't meant to be safe queens ; )

Amen!

 

[David Milisock]

Hi, anybody have experience with the hornady .224 cal 75 bthp on woodchucks?

I typically use a 75 eld-m in my bolt gun, but am diving into the wonderful world of the AR-15 (need a bullet I can seat to mag length).

The 75 bthp is alluring due to low cost, but if they don't have violent expansion I am not interested, and will likely use the 73 eld-m.

Experience appreciated, particularly want to know if the 75 bthp pencils through, or tears chucks up.

Thanks!

I find the AR 15 platform in 223 or 5.56 NATO functional but too limited for varmint hunting. The gas system presents too many limitations on powders for use with light projectiles and if you have the 1 in 9 or 1 in 7 twist the heavier projectiles don't shoot flat enough for my tastes.

I use a Howa 1500 223 bolt rifle 1 in 12 twist with custom 40 grain Hornady VMAX projectiles and a 700 BDL Remington in 6mm Remington 1 in 10 twist with custom 75 grain Hornady VMAX.

 

[FrogFire7]

Those are excellent bullets but don't have the wind drift resistance that I'm looking for. I like to plink at longer ranges so drop doesn't bother me, but wind resistance is important.

 

[David Milisock]

Those are excellent bullets but don't have the wind drift resistance that I'm looking for. I like to plink at longer ranges so drop doesn't bother me, but wind resistance is important.

If longer range plinking or target shooting was my goal for an AR 15 in 223 or 5.56 NATO then heavier projectiles work better. My Colt with a scope mounted priduces 1 1/2" 300 yard groups. However in my experience field conditions for varminting sent me the other direction.

I found that with patience I was able to develop a 40 grain hyper velocity load for the 223 that reduced the time of flight so that I could achieve my desired accuracy, (body shots on crows and groundhog head shots) at 350 yards in moderate wind.

While on calm days my 55 and 40 grain loads grouped equally at 300 yards however as the wind kicked up the much faster 40 grain load with the reduced time of flight kept the groups from spreading as much.

 

[FrogFire7]

If longer range plinking or target shooting was my goal for an AR 15 in 223 or 5.56 NATO then heavier projectiles work better. My Colt with a scope mounted priduces 1 1/2" 300 yard groups. However in my experience field conditions for varminting sent me the other direction.

I found that with patience I was able to develop a 40 grain hyper velocity load for the 223 that reduced the time of flight so that I could achieve my desired accuracy, (body shots on crows and groundhog head shots) at 350 yards in moderate wind.

While on calm days my 55 and 40 grain loads grouped equally at 300 yards however as the wind kicked up the much faster 40 grain load with the reduced time of flight kept the groups from spreading as much.

That's fine, but I still like to shoot way farther than that and need a heavier bullet.

 

[glide]

David, I don't understand what you are referring to when you say custom 40 grain and custom 75 grain bullets?

 

[David Milisock]

David, I don't understand what you are referring to when you say custom 40 grain and custom 75 grain bullets?

It's the rifle that's custom built the bulletts are Hornady.

 

[David Milisock]

That's fine, but I still like to shoot way farther than that and need a heavier bullet.

I understand you want to shoot farther and need heavy bulletts. If 224 caliber is your choice I would ask if it's target range of field shooting? Also what is you're definition of accuracy?

I've carried the 5.56 in the M platform in the field for a few years, for over 30 years I've loaded for the AR 15 A2 20" barrel with a 1 in 7 twist. I've shot range and field with the rifle with 55, 62, 68 grain and heavier projectiles.

I have found that any projectile over 68 grains in this platform with 5.56 NATO cartridge reduced velocity too much creating too severe a ballistic curve and too long a flight time for any work other than range work.

If your criteria for field accuracy is a 3" to 6" circle, time constraints, target ranging and other variables in the field are much more easily overcome with a 224 caliber bullett pushed much faster than a 5.56 case capacity can handle.

In my experience with iron sites in random conditions with sufficient target acquisition time, man sized targets are easily and regularly hit out to 400 yards with 55 and 62 grain projectiles. My rifle with quality 68 grain bulletts stretches that to 500 yards.

When I scoped the rifle with heavy bullettes and reduce that target size to 3" to 6" (varmint size) the results for me were at 3" (hit every time, most wind conditions) no more than 300 yards. At 400 yards the hit percentage dropped to as low as 40% in high winds.

The next problem was that if I moved to a 6" target the hit percentage at 500 yards was about the same, 40% in wind.

I came to the varmint part of this 224 caliber backwards, starting with the 6mm Remington. I had good success with it and tried the 223 and 5.56 in both bolt and AR platforms, then I ran into the limits of the case capacity.

 

[glide]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[fyrewall]

Go for zippy bullets that expand, have relatively flat trajectories like MV's close or over 3000. and feed well from magazine to chamber. Try some 55 grain plastic tip bullets and see if they fit the previous. I like the 53 VMax but could not get them to feed well in my AR. Problems with plastic tip bullets?; try hollow points or soft points. The 62 grain Hornady SPBT bullet from Grafs is a good performer but I wish I could drive it faster. I have a 16 inch barrel on my Sig Tread. The 62 grain HPBT from Mid South is more accurate in my AR than the 62 soft point and has a more aerodynamic boat tail. Both these 62 gran bullets, if driven at MV's close to or somewhat over 3000, might work.

Look!, there's one at 416 yards! How much hold over or how much scope adjustment? Look, he just moved.

 

[alby280]

How dead can you kill a ground hog?Killed many in counties that won't let you use a centerfire rifle with a 22lr.

 

[FrogFire7]

How dead can you kill a ground hog?Killed many in counties that won't let you use a centerfire rifle with a 22lr.

I've killed tons with a .22lr. They work really well. However, I participate in an annual groundhog hunt where we have to collect the chucks. The more expansive the bullet, the more likely to recover the chuck, if the shot placement was not optimal. Let alone that they kill more swiftly.

Either way, this thread seems to have derailed. Thanks to all who chimed in with experience on the bullet in question!

 

[David Milisock]

Go for zippy bullets that expand, have relatively flat trajectories like MV's close or over 3000. and feed well from magazine to chamber. Try some 55 grain plastic tip bullets and see if they fit the previous. I like the 53 VMax but could not get them to feed well in my AR. Problems with plastic tip bullets?; try hollow points or soft points. The 62 grain Hornady SPBT bullet from Grafs is a good performer but I wish I could drive it faster. I have a 16 inch barrel on my Sig Tread. The 62 grain HPBT from Mid South is more accurate in my AR than the 62 soft point and has a more aerodynamic boat tail. Both these 62 gran bullets, if driven at MV's close to or somewhat over 3000, might work.

Look!, there's one at 416 yards! How much hold over or how much scope adjustment? Look, he just moved.

You and I seem to shoot at the same type of target, little to no time for calculations so I tend to lean toward very fast projectiles. Which leans away from gas operated self loaders. I see similar issues on tactical forums, clearly no real experiance from many who post.

 

[fyrewall]

You and I seem to shoot at the same type of target, little to no time for calculations so I tend to lean toward very fast projectiles. Which leans away from gas operated self loaders. I see similar issues on tactical forums, clearly no real experiance from many who post.

I can remember a bunch of small rodents that were systematically shot off a big mound by a teen-ager using a AR. This was at about 200 yards and I believe it was with some 55 grain bullet. To boost less than zippy velocities there is the .22 Nosler and .22 Valkyrie for use at somewhat extended ranges but who wants to lose expensive brass in the weeds and besides many would have problems in spelling Valkyrie.

 

[FrogFire7]

If I were going to do a serious long range varmint AR, I think I would do real fast twist 22 Grendel. Easy to form brass (just size, no fire forming) and real good velocity. Should be faster than the valkyrie!

 

[K9TXS]

So what's the twist rate on the barrel you're using. A couple of folks asked, but you haven't answered. The twist will help get you a better answer.

 

[David Milisock]

I can remember a bunch of small rodents that were systematically shot off a big mound by a teen-ager using a AR. This was at about 200 yards and I believe it was with some 55 grain bullet. To boost less than zippy velocities there is the .22 Nosler and .22 Valkyrie for use at somewhat extended ranges but who wants to lose expensive brass in the weeds and besides many would have problems in spelling Valkyrie.

I really like the 223/5.56 NATO cartridge mild report, recoils d plenty accurate but being self employed the days I get into the field pick me more than I pick them so I usually take both my Howa 1500 in 223 and my Remington 700 in 6mm Remington.

300 to 350 is reasonable with the 223 and small targets but the wind and that small case capacity don't get along. I definitely try and stalk to within 300, I'm not inclined to say I wacked a chuck at 600 yards and omit that I sprayed the field with 6 misses. I'd rather just not take the shot.

 

[FrogFire7]

So what's the twist rate on the barrel you're using. A couple of folks asked, but you haven't answered. The twist will help get you a better answer.

I guess I hadn't answered because that wouldn't help answer if the 75 BTHP performs well on groundhogs.

It's a 1-7 or 1-7.5, as close as I can tell with a cleaning rod. Plenty fast enough to shoot anything I can seat to mag length.

Do you have a heavy for caliber, high BC recommendation that expands well on varmints, and can be seated to mag length?