First go with a 6x45, Shaking My Head

[wildcatter]

I picked up a custom Remington Mohawk with three barrel for one reason, a light accurate, throw in the truck gun for varmints. The rifle had a 223 barrel, and that was my plan to see how the 47 grain HP's would do in it, and not really interested in the other two barrels. after having, a 6mm and 7mm 223 in Super 14 contenders, I wasn't really impressed with them. They shot good enough, but were in my opinion to anemic for bolt guns. BUT, I've been wrong before!!

The 6x45 barrel was on it when I picked it up, or I probably would have just shot the 223 and if I was happy with the accuracy, the other two barrels would have been gone!! But when I got it, the 6x45 barrel was on it, so instead of changing it I decided to pull the 4-20x50 Optica5 Meopta off my 22LR on it and see what it was like with 10" more barrel.........

First thing I did was break out the bore scope, this was not what I wanted to see. My first impression was, I can't even sell this thing, but over the past 70 years I've learned to never judge a book by it's cover! Same with firearms. But how can a Custom Mohawk, with a Timney Trigger, custom bolt release, and trued action, be built with a barrel like this?

That is what I found, all five of those spots were located about 11 to 12 1/2" out from the receiver, dead center of the barrel placed around the diameter in that 11/2" length. mostly in the upper 2/3rds of it. So it could not even be shortened for an XP pistol or a carbine to get rid of it. I was real close to just screwing the 223 barrel and going from there. But past experience with barrels that weren't what I wanted them to look like, even though none really looked this bad, that looks aint everything!

It was obvious this barrel didn't have many rounds down the tube, the chamber and throat was great, crown looked good, and since I sold me 6mm PPC bench gun, with almost 2000 65 grain Bibbs on my shelf, and about a full pound of Benchmark I never found a use for, I'd see how bad this thing was.

WOW, am I glad I did! First off was the first trip out was just 3 shot loaded at what Hodgdon called max, and showed as compressed, to 1/2 grain hotter and then .8 and 1.2 and finally 1.5 grains over their shown max, and I still wasn't compressing the Benchmark barely starting into the bottom of the neck. Nothing was even cratering the primers, and these new Virgin LC cases were not showing any pressure.

So back to the shop, scope and clean the bore again, and that was when I took those camera shots with the bore scope camera, hmm where is the copper? There was none, even after the 3 wet patches, 6 strokes with the bore tech bronse brush and three more wet patches with Butch's. I was still not expecting anything great, but with no copper building up, I was going to see what it could do.

Again this was only purchased because I was wanting a light wieght handy little rifle for 2 to 3 hundred yard Varmint. The short Mohawk action didn't hurt either, since my first full blown custom bench rifle was built on it's little Brother the XP-100. The XP and the Mohawk have always been a soft spot for me. With the light sporter contoured barrel at 660 @ the muzzle, I didn't expect a whole lot anyways from the 24" 1-8 twist X Caliber barrel. The Timney Trigger was crisp and travel free with no creep or over travel. But the little light barreled action in the older Fiberglass McMillan general purpose stock, which I also have a soft spot for, since I had two Fred Sinclair builds back in the day, a 300 win mag, and 338 win mag, were both built on this stock. Real old world workhorse hunting stocks. I decided that 1/2 MOA would be impressive enough with the 65 bibs, if I could get 3000 to 3100 fps with this gun.

So the max listed load was where I started since my test loads prove to be safe. I was loading about .010" into the lands, and with this 1-8 twist barrel throated for 90 grain bullets I was not loading very deep in the neck of the LC brass. I took 3 five starting at the 27 grains that Hodgdon shows for the 62 grain bullets. then 5@27.5 5@28.0 and then only 3 each of 28.5, and 29.0 grains. I new all the 5 shots were safe and showed nothing as pressure, but since I didn't want to pull bullets later I decided to see if the 29.0 showed any pressure I would just pull those, and only shooting 3 at 28.5 in my first test, if any of them did show pressure I'd just stop there.

I used the Max book loads to get the Optika5 sighted in close then started on the left lower target square with the 27.5 loadm 4 shot went high, but I was struggeling to find a way to rest this light rig on my bags and knew part of it could have been me, as the 5th shot went in the same place the first 3 did, meating my 1/2" moa accuracy to work with this rigg. But wow, over 120 fps spread?

I then used a different rest arrangement that felt a little better, still more work steadying than my usual varmint rigs! So I then started on the bottom left of the right sighter for the 28.0 grn load and after 4 shots was starting to have FUN! With the 5th holding in the same hole, and the spread dropping to about 60 fps, I thought maybe this is better than I hoped, but I've shot flukes before. PLUS 3200+fps, more than I would have thought I would get out of this caliber with 65 grain bullets.

Then I moved up and shot the NBRSA emblem on the center of the right target, after giving the scope some more up adjustment. and watching every case, and feeling for bolt lift to see any over pressure signs. I again was like WOW, and now the spreads are down below 40 fps, and with a .360" 3 shot group, I am beginning to believe the first 2 targets. So I decided to keep going with the last load I had 3 shots of 29.0 grains. This is still not compressed, but is 1/2 way up the neck.

Well now knowing this barrel is going to shoot, and excited to see what's next, I moved the scope back where it was for the first two loads, just to check the 4-20x50 Optika5 since it had never been shot past 50 yards on a rimfire. A bonus in my day showing it does track as good as the Zeiss scopes Meopta builds, a real bargain scope with the best glass of any 1" scope tubed scope I've ever owned, and as good as my Zeiss Conquest 6.5-20x50 on my 17 MachIV 6BR switch barrel varmint rigg.

I move to the bottom sighter again using to right S for my aiming point this time---- yep, a picture is worth a thousand words!! Scope is tracking perfect, the groups are shrinking,, and now the velocity is far exceeding what I thought was possible from an ancient old target shooters wildcat, only designed to shoot paper! I was blown away, and after 4 groups, 2-5 shot, and 2-3 shot for caution, I am positive, this barrel caliber combo is no fluke!! 3300+ fps, extreme spread now down to under 25 fps I don't really care iof it will shoot any better! It is a lot more than what I hoped this rifle would be! I don't think I'm even going to try other bullets or powders in it. .3 moa with a 65 grain Varmint bullet, at this speed! I don't think I will even mess with the 223 barrel, and it is only test fired when the gun was built, still new.

I did reset the scope to the same elevation I shot the 28.5 grain load with, and give it 4 clicks to the left, then used the bottom center of the square on the top record target to check for zero,,, again tracking like it should. After that, I did have two 85 grain bullets loaded.

I had 2 Sierra 85 grain bullets to see if they were showing the same tame pressures with Benchmark the manual showed. One each,,, 27.0 grains max shown load, and 27.5 grain if the first was safe. Again I can go hotter if I want to load these for deer hunting where legal. But again after I pulled the target It dawned on me,, 1/2 grain different loads, one shot each, now aiming at the top of the center square on the upper record target, and yep, under 1/2 moa using the same aiming point.

Then by the time I walk back to the bench with this target, admiring it as walked, it hits me again! Those 85 grain bullets are practically the same exact point of impact the 65 grain bullets were, and that was the 27.0 grain load I didn't try for group? As I set the target on the bench, I turned and looked at the chrony for the first time since I shot the 85 grain loads, not even thinking about how fast, just wanting to shoot them to see how safe?

Well almost 3000 fps @ 2972 I think, I didn't write it down, but first thing I thought when I looked at the readout was WOW, almost 3000 fps with room to go up? I'll be testing the 85 grain HPBT Game Kings just to see, but if they group under 1/2" moa at this speed or a little more, what a perfect deer load for the eastern whitetails, or any deer out to 250 to 300 yards!

I was so mind blown, with 3 of the 27.0 grain loads left after all this shooting, over 20 rounds thru the barrel, I walked the target back for one more shot, I wanted to save to shells in case the ultimate happened and I seen coyote on the way home,, but had to shoot one last shot, to confirm my zero that was just a click maybe to the left, but with the wind blowing right to left, I left there for now. So back at the bench again with the target rehung,,,, there it is one last time, no flukes, no doubt in the rifle, the barrel, the scope, the loads, it is what it is. Back on the bottom sighter on the left target I started on and no shots around the right mothball, I placed one last shot, and I honestly think it would have cut the same hole as the top right target I checked this zero at.

All in all way more than I had hoped for. The 6x45 is truly more than I had expected! The rifle is really impressive for a light wieght walk around hunting rig, and best of all, I thinks it would be a great whitetail rig as well varmint for stalking either. So good, that the Meopta is going back on the 22RF and the new Leica Amplus6 3-18x44i, it EARNED IT!!

 

[Knotwild]

I envy you. I have 3 stock Mohawk 600s, but none are custom. One is an unfired .222.

 

[harro]

Those velocities are impressive.
The 6x45 is an extremely efficient and effective chambering.
My one throws a 85gr Sierra hpbt at 2865fps and is the most accurate rifle I own , personally I feel that 85gr-87gr is the upper limit of projectile weight that should be used in regards to trajectory/ velocity etc .

I’ll never sell it

 

[wildcatter]

I envy you. I have 3 stock Mohawk 600s, but none are custom. One is an unfired .222.

I could say the same, an unfired Mohawk is a special rifle to own, and can be a custom whatever you want at anytime. BUT, to have a Mohawk in 222 is special, most are gone or molested. Then to have not just a special Mohawk in 222, but to have one new and unfired, that my friend is something to envy, as that is something that can only be had if you are extremely Lucky, and can not be made out of any other rifle, unfired is only available once!

Those velocities are impressive.
The 6x45 is an extremely efficient and effective chambering.
My one throws a 85gr Sierra hpbt at 2865fps and is the most accurate rifle I own , personally I feel that 85gr-87gr is the upper limit of projectile weight that should be used in regards to trajectory/ velocity etc .

I’ll never sell it

When I bought this rifle the 6x45 barrel and the 222x35 barrel were both thought to be trading stock and the 223 barrel is what I planned on using. If it had been on the rifle when I bought it, I probably would have never even shot the 6x45. Now I don't think I want to change it?

I also bought it planning to cut either one if I was going to use them to 20". Boy has that idea changed!! Like you if I had not frequently tested this chrony with other known accurate chronographs I would have doubted the velocities. But now knowing they are correct, I just can't talk myself into cutting this barrel, and doubt I shoot the 223 for some time.

I also now have no trading stock to trade or sell to reup any of my investment in this rig, in fact the Leica 3-18x44i was only even thought about after seeing how well this barrel performs, velocity and accuracy, so I lost money and gained an even handier rigg than I originally had bargained for.

 

[simo hayha]

My favorite little round.

 

[S Miller]

Geez, could almost make you want to put a fresh barrel chambered up in 6x45 on that pretty red panda of yours.

 

[AWS]

I have a 600 that started life as a 223 which I wore out and had PacNor put a 6x45 barrel on it. It took is one of my most accurate predator hunting rifles.

 

[wildcatter]

Geez, could almost make you want to put a fresh barrel chambered up in 6x45 on that pretty red panda of yours.

I've already checked Scott, Manson has 2 reamers with live pilots and 5 with fixed pilots in stock? This aint good! Since I have a 6mm 1-10 twist HV Krieger in the safe, 28" uncut! It might outshoot that 222 light varmint in a Heavy Barrel, on that BR stock with the 1.5 oz Jewel. But If I was building another 6mm on that 1-10 HV barrel, it will be on a full blown Varmint rig, 6x47 Lapua at the least, or more likely a 6mm AI, never again in these calibers on a 1-8 barrel!

But right now I'm building a 257 Roberts AI for the long range Varmint rig. The one thing this rifle has done, is stirred the want for another big game rig just like it. As it reminds me so much of them two best big game rifles I ever owned. That was over 35 years ago I had those 2, the 300 win mag and 338 win mag Sinclair builds, both on this same stock only in full grown 700 actions.

It sure makes me regret that I ever had to sell them, a thought I was finally getting over till now. Now that want is being fired up again. My heart says go for it, but so far my mind is reminding me at 70 with pinned and plated neck, fake knees, 7 fusions in the lower back, and one rebuilt shoulder, being able to use those rifles is in my ancient past! I just don't know how long my sain train of thought can last, but that is what stirs me from this rig!

 

[wildcatter]

Here it is setup the way I will be hunting with it from here out. Now the only thing I would like better is to get rid of 5.5" of the barrel, I just don't want to risk it changing the way it is shooting now. But I might take the risk with the 223 barrel, I have a few rounds for the 222x35 which is a 19" barrel. Later on I plan to try it out and see or feel the difference in real life handling, the 6x45 and 223 barrels will stay 24" till then, but I sure would like to make it handier, as well as about 12 oz lighter! Either way, Thanks Jim,, I'm very happy with this rig, here it is fully dressed.


and this is why I'm tempted, the 222x35 next to the looooonger 223 barrel. Like I said, I might shoot the 223 barrel then decide which to cut. Then if I am happy with it at 18.5" cut them both?

 

[Richard Jones]

Great write-up, almost like I was there!

Love my 2 6x45's, 1 bolt, 1 AR. Great round.

 

[5spd]

Ive assembled 7 6x45s on savage and ar15 frames.
All barrel lengths from 24" down to 20" are super accurate and 500 yds is easy with 55 to 85g bullets.
One of my coyote rigs is on a savage action, standard stock, SS, 20" heavy sporter bbl.
All builds were with a 1/9" tw bbl. Accurate no matter the loads.
H335, Xterminator are my go to powders for all weight bullets.

 

[wildcatter]

So much for the I'm not cutting these barrels down statement. The 6x45 is never getting changed! It is just a fun-nominal shooter! At least with the 65 grain Bibs. But after running the 223 barrel with 47 grain bullets, and finding .4" groups at 100 yards repeat,,,,, @ 3780fps! Yes it will hit 3800 fps now and then but average 3780, I decided it needs a speed limit.

Just kidding, not a speed limit, we would never do that. But I did decide, I really don't need that much speed for what I want this barrel for. So I decided to try and give it better manners! I cut the barrel to 20", I have not yet shot it, but will clock it later today, and I really don't think I'll lose much more than 100 fps, using the XBR8208, in heavy doses! But cutting 4" off we will see what 20" instead of 24" is in the real world, and man does it handle better! It really does have manners now.

I don't see a difference in 100 fps at those speeds, unless I run it thru the coronagraph. I mean that out to 300 yards, there is a difference, it's not obvious shooting it in the field, I just set the Meopta 4-20x50 to 9x instead of 10x.

I also don't see a difference in 50 grain or 47 grain, and over a 52 grain bullet, probably not going to notice that either on the vermin this rifle will be targeting! In fact, it may be slightly preferential, more so than noticeable.

I'll be heading out just after sunrise to see what difference there is in the real world, and on the way back home, just might get to try it out on coyote, as I make a couple stops and a few calls. I'll report the results tonight.

 

[JSH]

The 6-223/6x45/6TCU has a different “attitude” when put in a rifle or carbine length barrel.
I campaigned my TC 6TCU and an XP 6x45 for half size IHMSA for a long time.

Had a spare XP action and less rifles than long barreled pistols, I acquired all of the necessary things to change it to a rifle. My mentor and good friend did the work.
LC virgin prepped brass, Speer TNT bullet, H335 and a RP 7.5 primer makes it happy.
Shoots sub MOA when I do my part, out to 300 yards.

 

[harro]

So much for the I'm not cutting these barrels down statement. The 6x45 is never getting changed! It is just a fun-nominal shooter! At least with the 65 grain Bibs. But after running the 223 barrel with 47 grain bullets, and finding .4" groups at 100 yards repeat,,,,, @ 3780fps! Yes it will hit 3800 fps now and then but average 3780, I decided it needs a speed limit.

Just kidding, not a speed limit, we would never do that. But I did decide, I really don't need that much speed for what I want this barrel for. So I decided to try and give it better manners! I cut the barrel to 20", I have not yet shot it, but will clock it later today, and I really don't think I'll lose much more than 100 fps, using the XBR8208, in heavy doses! But cutting 4" off we will see what 20" instead of 24" is in the real world, and man does it handle better! It really does have manners now.

I don't see a difference in 100 fps at those speeds, unless I run it thru the coronagraph. I mean that out to 300 yards, there is a difference, it's not obvious shooting it in the field, I just set the Meopta 4-20x50 to 9x instead of 10x.

I also don't see a difference in 50 grain or 47 grain, and over a 52 grain bullet, probably not going to notice that either on the vermin this rifle will be targeting! In fact, it may be slightly preferential, more so than noticeable.

I'll be heading out just after sunrise to see what difference there is in the real world, and on the way back home, just might get to try it out on coyote, as I make a couple stops and a few calls. I'll report the results tonight.

Any update on the shortened barrel ?

I was playing around with my 6x45 yesterday.
I recently bought some Berger 88gr varmint bullets to try in my recently acquired Howa 6mm ARC , but it hated them .
So I thought “ waste not want not “ and loaded up a few in the 6x45 .
The Berger 88gr varmint projectiles have a few attributes that actually really suit my Rifle setup.
My 6x45 is built on a Tikka T3 and has a Waters Magazine that allows for a cartridge OAL of 2.6 inches if needed.
So when I load these long slender bullets to maximum magazine length the bullets are 15 thou off the lands and because they are flat based there is no protrusion into the case taking up valuable powder space .

The results are good enough for me to keep playing with these bullets in my 6x45 , but this is a hunting Rifle and I’m a bit unsure how the Berger’s terminal performance will be .

 

[wildcatter]

Any update on the shortened barrel ?

I was playing around with my 6x45 yesterday.
I recently bought some Berger 88gr varmint bullets to try in my recently acquired Howa 6mm ARC , but it hated them .
So I thought “ waste not want not “ and loaded up a few in the 6x45 .
The Berger 88gr varmint projectiles have a few attributes that actually really suit my Rifle setup.
My 6x45 is built on a Tikka T3 and has a Waters Magazine that allows for a cartridge OAL of 2.6 inches if needed.
So when I load these long slender bullets to maximum magazine length the bullets are 15 thou off the lands and because they are flat based there is no protrusion into the case taking up valuable powder space .

The results are good enough for me to keep playing with these bullets in my 6x45 , but this is a hunting Rifle and I’m a bit unsure how the Berger’s terminal performance will be .

Those groups are plenty good for our deer sized game here. Like you not sure about the terminal performance of the 88 fbhp Berger. I have 500 on the shelf I bought for a new barrel on my Stainless Axis. I just got to make a decision, 6mm Rem. AI, or 6x47 Lapua?

I just started load development with my new 257 Bob AI, and my very fist load guessing at seating depth, neck tension, powder charge, I am pretty sure with this in my arsenal for over 700 yard varmint, I don't really have a use for the 6mm AI! I think it has helped me answer that dilema,,, this 257 AI makes me pretty sure I can tune that load to .25"?
Thats an 88 grain Bibs in the 257 first time out with H4350 powder, and less than 50 rounds now thru the new brux barrel! That lets me use those 6mm 88 Berger's in a new 1-10 HV 26" 6x47 Lapua. One barrel burner at a time should do it.

But to answer your question on barrel shortening the 223 barrel, I think I did the right thing!


Them 47 grain FBHP should ruin the day for anything coyote size and smaller out to 300 yards. Maybe a bit further, but sighted in @ 275 yards, so to not shoot over 2" high of POA or 2" low of POA out to a little over 300 should make for a no guess, aim dead on, quick handling, light and very easy to carry rifle for that duty!

I was hoping the group would be a little smaller, it shot this load right at .4" before, now it's .480". But this only three shots, and I only shot it once before cutting the barrel down. I never tuned anything, I just loaded it about .005" into the lands, and shot it? I think I can get to shoot a little better. But I'll live with it for what it is. If this is the best it will do at this speed, I'll keep it, it's not a target rifle, and for varmint out to 300 with this bullet, speed will trump better accuracy, as long as it will repeat this? I'ts all new, and just my preliminary results.


I need some good weather, I have this load to tune, and a new 257 AI that is close I need to get tuned for this spring. I will have some time because I also have 338-06 AI in New Parts setting to be built. But I will have a while before that comes to life. I just found out Thursday, my gunsmith will be down for 8 to 12 weeks after falling off a ladder and crushing his heel. Tomorrow they have to operate, but the surgeon already told him, no weight for 8 weeks, then they would think about when to start rehab?????? Prayers for Fred all, he could use them!

 

[Richard Jones]

Any update on the shortened barrel ?

I was playing around with my 6x45 yesterday.
I recently bought some Berger 88gr varmint bullets to try in my recently acquired Howa 6mm ARC , but it hated them .
So I thought “ waste not want not “ and loaded up a few in the 6x45 .
The Berger 88gr varmint projectiles have a few attributes that actually really suit my Rifle setup.
My 6x45 is built on a Tikka T3 and has a Waters Magazine that allows for a cartridge OAL of 2.6 inches if needed.
So when I load these long slender bullets to maximum magazine length the bullets are 15 thou off the lands and because they are flat based there is no protrusion into the case taking up valuable powder space .

The results are good enough for me to keep playing with these bullets in my 6x45 , but this is a hunting Rifle and I’m a bit unsure how the Berger’s terminal performance will be .

Given your parameters, some other bullets that would work are the Berger 80 FB (23432), Speer 85 BT (1213), and Speer 75 FB (1205) to name a few. My 6x45 freebore is much shorter than yours, putting almost everything below the donut. It’s exasperating…………..

 

[wildcatter]

Given your parameters, some other bullets that would work are the Berger 80 FB (23432), Speer 85 BT (1213), and Speer 75 FB (1205) to name a few. My 6x45 freebore is much shorter than yours, putting almost everything below the donut. It’s exasperating…………..

I don't know why anyone would deal with donuts today. just part of brass prep for any cartridge I alter my brass for. This is a 1-8 twist barrel. But I'm not going to ruin the throat for using both heavy and light bullets. If all I wanted to do is hunt deer, I would think about extending the throat.

But in this cartridge it is not fast enough to use a 100 to 115 grain bullet for hunting deer size game, and expect the bullet to do anything terminally beyond 50 or 100 yards. When the 85 grain HPBT will still run fast enough to give some terminal performance even at 200 yards or a little further.

I just think trying to turn it into a 243 is taking away from its ability. but those 55 to 70 grain bullets at over 3200 fps make it quite versatile for varmints out to 300 yards at the same time.

 

[harro]

I don't know why anyone would deal with donuts today. just part of brass prep for any cartridge I alter my brass for. This is a 1-8 twist barrel. But I'm not going to ruin the throat for using both heavy and light bullets. If all I wanted to do is hunt deer, I would think about extending the throat.

But in this cartridge it is not fast enough to use a 100 to 115 grain bullet for hunting deer size game, and expect the bullet to do anything terminally beyond 50 or 100 yards. When the 85 grain HPBT will still run fast enough to give some terminal performance even at 200 yards or a little further.

I just think trying to turn it into a 243 is taking away from its ability. but those 55 to 70 grain bullets at over 3200 fps make it quite versatile for varmints out to 300 yards at the same time.

Totally agree .
A 85gr Sierra hpbt travelling at 2865fps out of mine is the upper end of what’s possible in regards to terminal performance on larger animals.
It would be a waste of time in my opinion to try any projectile over 90 gr because you just can’t push them fast enough.
I’ve just loaded up some 70gr Sierra BlitzKings to see how they perform.

Three different powder charges from mild to spicy ( 6 rounds of each ) and a few of my normal 85gr Sierra hpbt loads incase something jumps up in front of me when I’m out and about .

 

[JEFFPPC]

6 tcu....case Full of 748, 60 Sierra HP. Try it, you will like it. 1 hole groups not 2 and 1.

 

[Bc'z]

6 tcu....case Full of 748, 60 Sierra HP. Try it, you will like it. 1 hole groups not 2 and 1.

Great powder in my 6x45 with 70-80 grain bullet