First Big Rifle

[Sandman]

Please read my signature, I am looking for my first long range rifle. I have talked to some knowledgeable people and have decided with the .308 Win caliber. After reading on this site, i have noticed that the guides here are VERY informative. Great going guys! So i am looking for a beginners .308 rifle. I have a budget of $450-$500. I hope to get up to 1000 yards with LOTS of practice and hand loading. I already have a scope, it is a Tasco 6x24x40, a picture is attached. Some advice on the Leupold scope mounts would be great. Don't worry about my age, i am going to buy it with my dad. <laughs> Thanks in advance for helping me.

 

[Gollum]

For that kind of money a Savage Model 12 BVSS makes a lot of sense. Laminated stock, 26" stainless fluted heavy barrel, accu-trigger. Remove the front swivel, and install a Sinclair forend stabilizer, and you should be good to go.

I've seen a couple guys shooting very well with these in 308 and 223's at local matches. 308 has some recoil, something that I've become less tolerant of lately. 243's seem to be picking up in LR popularity, something to consider also.

As far as mounts go, I've gone to the "leupold std" mount,Dovetail front, windage adj rear), along with Burris Signature Rings,the ones with the plastic inserts). Center the scope mechanicly, then sight in windage wise with the screws on the rear base. This leaves you with all the elevation adjustment thats in the scope. If you run out of elevation, Burris makes offset inserts, that should give you the verticle you need. I use these rings with my 300 RUM, and haven't seen any evidence of any movement, and they leave no ring marks on the scope.

 

[M700]

I think the .308 is a great choice for your first "big" rifle. Recoil isn't bad at all, barrel life is exceptional, there is a great selection of match grade ammo and handloading components available.

In your price range - you might want to look for a good used Remington 700 varmint rifle. They've been made in .308 Win, in a variety of configurations over the years. Some with synthetic stocks, some with laminated stocks, some with walnut stocks. They all shoot well.

Or, check out the Savage rifles. Excellent value for the money.

For real nice scope rings & base,at about $200) check out http://www.seekinsprecision.com

Seekins, Badger Ord, and others with that "tactical" look are very good, but very expensive. A rifle can shoot very well without those expensive bases & rings.

On a tighter budget, Leupold makes their line of "STD" base and rings. They even offer a "long-range" base in the STD line. Actually a very good setup for not much money. I've shot high-master scores in prone matches with one. Warne also makes a very good, fairly inexpensive mount & ring setup.

It's a tossup if 155's, 168's, 175's or even 190's are going to be "the" bullet for your rifle. With a factory 24" or 26" tube, consider the 175's for long-range use. They do very well. My rifle prefers the 168's for 600 yards and shorter ranges. Another match rifle I use does great with the 155's.

Glad to see a young shooter getting into the sport. Good luck. You can learn a lot on this forum.

Regards, Guy

 

[DesertLefty]

Savage has a lot of good features, including the best factory barrels,button-rifled) in current production. It's tempting for the price.

However, having owned both, I think you'd be better off with a Remington 700. In my opinion, you will NEVER get the trigger and the lock time on a Savage to be anywhere near as good as a Remington.

A good trigger is VERY important to good marksmanship. The Remington factory trigger is good,after your gunsmith has adjusted it for $50), and the after-market triggers are numerous and outstanding,Jewell HVR for $225 is the BEST).

Remington 700 is the industry standard in tactical bolt actions and also for entry-level benchrest. Everybody knows how to work on them and there are TONS of after-market parts. This is a platform that will give you lots of room to grow as your skills and budget develop.

A PSS or Varmint Synthetic might cost $150 more to begin with, but will be well worth it in the long run. After adjusting the trigger and fire-lapping the factory barrel,using Tubb's Final Finish kit), I've been able to get half-MOA performance out of 2 stock Varmint Synthetics and a Sendero,.223, .308, and .300 UltraMag).

Biggest problem with Remington is that they don't put enough twist in their barrels. This can limit your ability to shoot heavy match bullets. Advantage Savage!

Buying a used gun is not a bad plan. Look for a target shooter who has upgraded and wants to sell his old gun.,However, $500 is pretty tight for this plan.)

One final thought: If you're going to handload, there is no reason to limit yourself to .308. It's a well-balanced cartridge that's easy to load for, but it really starts to fade beyond 600 yards. 7-08, .260, or .243 are all ballistically superior,when loaded with heavy match-type bullets) and have less recoil. In fact, a .243 shooting 115 gr DTACs will have only 60% of the wind drift AND 60% of the recoil of a .308 shooting 175 gr Sierras. That's a BIG advantage in both departments, especially for a beginner. The most compelling reason to go with .308 is if you don't handload and need to shoot factory ammo,Federal or Black Hills).

OK, that's my 2 cents worth. Good luck and welcome to the game!

"Lefty"

 

[wi50]

A guy can argue this, that, lock time, triggers and whatever else. But if you're on a budget and want experiance nothing beats a used Savage. Find one with the accu-trigger, I've picked up a couple heavy bareled ones in the tupperware stock for the $350 area. One was a mod 12 fv 22-250 the othe 10FP .308 win. They just shoot really well, most everyone's do, and leaves plenty of cash left for loading supplies and trips to the range. That will make you a better shooter than spending $2000 on a gun.

The 12BVSS models are nice, cost a little more but you've got a nice stock.

When it's time to upgrade and buy a real nice rifle the Savage didn't cost you squat. If you loose intrest or need to sell it, you get your $$$ back.

I've had some Remmy's, nothing wrong with them

Look into a 243, bullets cost less then 30 cal, and the rest of the compoents are about the same. The heavier 100 + grain match bullets do real well at long range. Barrels don't last as long, but if you've burned out a barrel than you've gotten some trigger time in.

 

[Sandman]

Thank you for all who gave me advice. Using this advice, I have increased my budget to $700. I have looked at the Remington and the Savage rifles and have made a "final draft" for my plan. I will get a Savage 12FV from a local dealer, go with the Leupold 2 piece STD mounts, and a locked Harris bipod. This is a "final draft" so any further advice is welcome. Soon after I start shooting, I will look into handloading. So please give me a crash course on the brands and gear to look for.

 

[2644ever]

Sandman, I would advise you to purchase a Sav 10 or 110 in single shot version. While they are not necessarily more accurate and better than repeaters, I've never seen one that was worse... And you get the added benefit, whenever you decide to upgrade to better components like barrels and stocks, to already have a reliable platform worth blueprinting.
It's great to have a young shooter among us, ther is still hope in the US of A!

 

[Travelor]

Sandman, I would get the 10 FP rather than the FV.

 

[DBailey]

The only differences between the 10FP and the 12FV is, the 10FP has a black colored bolt, one extra $1.25 sling swivel stud, and a shorter barrel
It's up to you if that's worth the difference in price.

 

[BountyHunter]

I would recommend the Savage also. PLus you can find a good used BVSS normally for around $500. With the accutrigger or a sharpshooter trigger, they will equal the Rem. Cannot speak about the locktime.

Suggest you look at www.snipershide.com, they have a lot of used Rem and Savages and most have already been tricked out to some degree and you can find a good one well under your budget. You should also look at the Savage Shooters Forum for used savages.

Farrell makes a 20 MOA base and it will be needed. Lot of good rings for under $75 to include the Burris signature rings.

Go with the Savage, and put the money into a better scope IMO.

Good luck.

BH

 

[DBailey]

Just a note about lock time.
Savage suposedly has a 1.6 millisecond lock time, which is suposedly about a millisecond faster than a Remington.

 

[Sandman]

Thanks for all of the replies, guys. I should be getting,or ordering)my rifle anytime from 2-4 weeks. It will be a Savage 10FP with a harris bipod and the scope and rings i suggested at the beginning of this thread. Later on, i may choose to go to a range with benchrests or prone shooting, i think i will get a choate stock. I know that savage makes a factory rifle with this, but i would like a normal stock just because. If I get really serious about competition, or casual benchresting, i might look into a custom barrel from Lilja Precision Rifle Barrels, for a mix between hunting and benchrest, I am thinking towards a 29" barrel, 1.450" at the chamber end for 5.25", then straight taper to 1.400" at 29". I will have it fluted, all barrels from Lilja Barrels are hand lapped, and this barrel will weigh just a hair under 11lbs. Lilja Barrels has a Very cool video of a remington 7mm magnum barrel right out of the box, versus theirs, it is a pretty good video if you watch the high quality one. The place for this video is on the frontpage, or the link is HERE. And again, thanks for the GREAT advice!

 

[wi50]

Sandman

Look at savageshooters.com. There are a couple of verry nice Savage BVSS rifles for sale in the $500 area right now. Some come with trigger upgrades, some with tapered scope bases. These are excellent rifles, at good prices when considering some of the things they come with.