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Fires in Oregon are VERY Close

Out west here where much of the fires are happening, we have pretty huge populations of homeless people, (bums) living in all manor of homeless encampments in the areas bordering the interstates, bridges, on/off ramps. Their garbage is incredible, the filth is indescribable, and they smoke drugs, weed, tobacco, and cook on fires wherever they live.

Many of them have Social Security Disability benefits, usually for being a hopeless drug addict. They have lives that would make the old "Kings of the Road" green with jealousy.

I would be amazed if some of the fires aren't started -- accidentally or on purpose, by some of these folks. jd
 
JD, I thought we had an agreement and you wouldn't talk about me like that on the forum! ;)
 
The answer may be Arsonists.

There is no still no credible evidence of arsonists starting large scale fires. There have been a few small incidents where the arsonists have been caught.

Wildfires are very common here in the Western US, especially since they quit maintaining the forests out here in the 1980s. We have several every summer. We routinely have windstorms knock down power lines, and when that happens in the summer during a drought we get fires. We also get fires from thunderstorms since the storms out here have lightning but not a lot of rain--unlike the Southeast. We also have fires that are started by accident or carelessness.

I oppose marxists and anarchists as much as anyone, but already have enough on them to shut them down. We don't need to risk losing our credibility by blaming them for things they probably didn't do.

Now if they ever do find such evidence I'll be glad to add the forest fires to the marxist/anarchist rioting, looting, building fires, minders, and all the other hateful stuff they do.
 
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Out west here where much of the fires are happening, we have pretty huge populations of homeless people, (bums) living in all manor of homeless encampments. Many of them have Social Security Disability benefits, usually for being a hopeless drug addict. They have lives that would make the old "Kings of the Road" green with jealousy.

Snert, I know that you have embraced that lifestyle in order to get information and experience for a book you are writing. I can hardly wait for your Steinbeck style masterpiece. jd
 
JDS, you are of course 100% right. People should also know that roughly 60% of Oregon is federal timber land that hasn't been taken care of for decades. Not to be out done by the feds, now our wonderful state of confusion, (Oregon) has now decided to make even more of the state timberland into wilderness so in a few years it to can burn to the ground as well.

On the news last night in Oregon they did bust a guy who has started six fires recently and of course they released him, ... and as you might think, they caught him starting around six more fires within hours of the first arrest. Gee, ... what a surprise.
 
JDS, you are of course 100% right. People should also know that roughly 60% of Oregon is federal timber land that hasn't been taken care of for decades. Not to be out done by the feds, now our wonderful state of confusion, (Oregon) has now decided to make even more of the state timberland into wilderness so in a few years it to can burn to the ground as well.

On the news last night in Oregon they did bust a guy who has started six fires recently and of course they released him, ... and as you might think, they caught him starting around six more fires within hours of the first arrest. Gee, ... what a surprise.

Do you have any info on the new wilderness?
 
JDS, you are of course 100% right. People should also know that roughly 60% of Oregon is federal timber land that hasn't been taken care of for decades. Not to be out done by the feds, now our wonderful state of confusion, (Oregon) has now decided to make even more of the state timberland into wilderness so in a few years it to can burn to the ground as well.

On the news last night in Oregon they did bust a guy who has started six fires recently and of course they released him, ... and as you might think, they caught him starting around six more fires within hours of the first arrest. Gee, ... what a surprise.

I saw that on the local news. Boggles the imagination and makes one wonder of the depths of stupidity will ever be fully plumbed. But hey, that's what the voters voted for. One can only assume that it is working out precisely they way they'd hoped.
 
Do you have any info on the new wilderness?
A few years back they closed of Soda Mountain turning it into some national sumthin or other.
From state hwy 66 "Dead Indian rd" south to the California boarder.
 
I agree. You hear all this talk of global warming causing the fires, but if this is true then why is mostly in the US. If global warming is happening then why is it only effecting the west coast of the US.

Global warming in and of itself doesn't cause fires. Global warming refers to the increase in the AVERAGE temperature of the ENTIRE earth [hence the word global] which includes all of the water and land. It usually occurs in fractions of a degree as measured on an annual basis or however often it is reported. Given that a calorie is defined as the amount of heat needed to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water 1 degree Celsius can you imagine how much heat it takes to raise the temperature of all of the oceans, lakes, seas rivers etc. even a thousandth of a degree? The increase in temperature is sufficient to melt ice in the northern ice caps and other places. Global warming has nothing to do with the fact that it gets cold in the winter and warm in the summer. It's the melting ice and warming oceans that cause changes in weather patterns that affect climate.
 
The smoke is here in Wyoming now. Looked at satellite imagery of the cloud - massive. Covers a few states. Be careful, my west coast friends.
 
I realize that global warming does not cause fires. It makes conditions more flavorable for fires to happen. The thing I was wondering about is if this is happening then why is it affecting almost only the western US and not other countries that have climates similar to the US.
 
aer21, no i heard it on the local news, (portland oregon) while the wife and i were eating dinner. It would have been either channel 8 or 12. We are on the other side of the state and listen to their local news while eating just to see what stupidity in that area went on that day.
You should be able to bring it up online.
 
European countries, for all their flaws, seem to understand that without active forest management, you get devastating fires.


Maybe you could expand more on this concept of active management [or mismanagement as the case may be] such as what is not being done that you think should be done. Is there a lack of buffer zones/firebreaks around towns and cities? Should a homeowner who chooses to build in a forest setting be required/allowed to create a clear cut zone so fire won't reach his property. How would thinning out a spot in the forest 50 miles from nowhere stop or minimize fires? How would thinning out trees from 500 per acre to 250 per acre stop fires? For those of us not in the know about such things, what in your opinion needs to be done?
 
My kids left California after 15 years Thursday. Sold their house loaded up for Missouri. Great to have them stay with us for a few days but the smoke from the California/Oregon fires are making it pretty bad here in Colorado.
 
Maybe you could expand more on this concept of active management [or mismanagement as the case may be] such as what is not being done that you think should be done. Is there a lack of buffer zones/firebreaks around towns and cities? Should a homeowner who chooses to build in a forest setting be required/allowed to create a clear cut zone so fire won't reach his property. How would thinning out a spot in the forest 50 miles from nowhere stop or minimize fires? How would thinning out trees from 500 per acre to 250 per acre stop fires? For those of us not in the know about such things, what in your opinion needs to be done?

The best person to give these details would be a forester that works or has worked in the PNW. Now I am not a forester, but I lived in the PNW from 1960-1983 and then again since 2007. The intervening 24 years I was in the USAF and I came home very year or so. I also worked in the forest products industry from 2007 - 2019. So here is my take, and I am completely open to being corrected by a PNW forester.

Logging ramped up in Oregon around 1910ish or so. I will focus on Oregon because Oregon is the largest wood producer in the USA. When logging first started, little thought was given to the environmental impacts. They would log right down to a stream bed, plugging up the stream and creating a lot of mud and silt. Those little streams were places where salmon and steelhead spawned and the logging practices were hurting the fish runs. There were also issues with erosion that caused issues.

In the 1960s people began to pay attention to the environmental impacts of those logging practices. In the early 70s Oregon passed legislation that addressed a lot of these issues and logging practices improved dramatically, pretty much solving the earlier problems. The demand for timber was great and public land was being actively logged and there was a strong focus on fire prevention.

Through the 70s and into the early 80s they were logging, clearing, and making roads in these dense forested areas. My dad told me in the 70s that it was 200 miles of new road each year on federal land. Part of the requirement for a company to harvest timber on public land was to maintain it and keep the understory cleaned out. A friend who owned a logging company told me yesterday that that would build roads and trails that allowed quick access to any area that caught on fire.

There weren't many devastating forest fires when they were actively logging. Wildlife liked the logging as well and numbers increased. Though animals will shelter in it, not much lives in an old growth Douglas Fir stand because little sunlight gets to the ground and so not much grows there.

Through all this, the environmentalists hated logging and were always trying to find a way to shut it down. Sadly, they gained power. They managed to convince politicians that logging old growth Doug Fir was decimating the Spotted Owl population. While that turned out be to be untrue, it did cause logging on public land to be dramatically curtailed. Add to that how private timber companies had become very efficient in managing their tree farms (40 years to harvestable tree on private land vs 80 years in the wild) and very little logging was happening in public forests. They also quit maintaining the roads that allowed quick fire suppression.

Since there was no logging, there was no requirement for anyone to keep the understory cleaned out. So fuel began building up in the public forests. In 1998 I was home on leave hunting, and I remember seeing this build up of dead trees, brush, etc. I also didn't see much wildlife. That was not the case when I hunted in Oregon in the 1970s and 1980s. I remember thinking that conditions were ripe for a very hot fire, and in 2002, close to where I had seen the build up of fuel a couple years earlier, 500,000 acres burned.

Private timberland does not see as devastating of fires because it is maintained. There are roads and the understory is kept clear. Private companies make sure their forest dept personnel carry firefighting equipment with them when they are in the woods. That doesn't mean a bad fire can't start on private land, but it is much less common than on public land. There are many stories of how a fire burning hot and killing trees on public land drops dramatically in intensity as it moves through private land. Also, private companies work quickly to put out fires unlike public agencies which have been known to let a blaze build to the next level so the next level agency can pay for suppression.

So what should be done?

I have always thought there should be three tiers of public forest land that are managed differently. The first level of forest land is land that is closer to population areas. I don't know what that distance should be, whether it is 10 miles, 20 miles, or more and it may vary based on the area. Regardless, that land should be very well maintained. Understory should be cleared out and roads should be maintained. Trees should be thinned out as well. Fires should be put out immediately.

Also in this close zone there should be a minimum distance from tree stands to structures in populated areas. This buffer zone could be 300 or 500 feet or whatever. One issue right now is in many of these cities/areas it is a crime to cut down a tree even if the landowner wants to.

The next zone is the wilderness zone. We already have Wilderness Areas and National Parks, and these should be kept as natural as practical. They still need to make provision for fire suppression, though not as aggressive of suppression as on closer lands. Generally, they don't put roads in wilderness areas and that is fine, but we better have readily available air tanker support and smoke jumpers. There should also be a buffer between the Wilderness Areas and close zone lands.

The final type of land would be remote wilderness where we don't do anything. Maybe keep it closed to everyone except biologists. If that land burns, then it burns. They only fire suppression would be to keep it out of the other types of lands.

I think that with what we spend on fire suppression each year we could easily fund more active forest management and dramatically reduce the number of big fires.
 
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