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Fire lapping

Hi, new guy with with a question.

What do you think on a production rifle barrel when breaking in a new barrel of this method of fire lapping.

Run a patch of JB bore bright, shoot, clean, run another patch of bore bright, shoot, clean. And so on till there is no more fouling. Would it smooth out the bore, damage, dangerous, waste of time and effort? I have traditionally just done the one shot clean method, but I am curious if this would work. Thanks for any input.

Andrew
 
Andrew: I don't understand your question. On one hand you ask about fire lapping, then describe using JB bore past? two completely different methods. Fire lapping involves firing a series of coated bullets down the bore in an attempt to smooth out a rough bore. Using JB bore paste, either version, is pushing a patch and/or brush down the bore to clean, or in a rough bore condition, attempting to smooth it out. Want to clarify? ???
 
Ok, I was afraid that I did not make myself clear. My thought is this, instead of using coated bullets, the bore would be coated instead and as a bullet traveled down the barrel it would polish the surface of the bore. So my thought was to reverse the method from using coated bullets to a coated bore. Does this make sense now?

Andrew
 
Does this make sense now?

Maybe, maybe not. It sounds like you're wanting to put JB in the bore and then fire it with a naked bullet using the JB compound as a fire forming method. If that's the case, it sounds dangerous.

Wayne
 
And the light bulb goes on! When I this thinking of using the paste in the barrel I did not consider the whole surface, which would decrease thus making it a clogged barrel. Whereas the coated bullets, the grit is bound into the bullet and does not change it's overall size. I thank you all for getting my head thinking straight. I knew something was not quite right but I could not put my finger on it.

Thank you again for the help.

Andrew
 
Andrew: Nothing wrong with considering other options when thinking about trying something you've never done before, as long as you go slow & think about the possible "repercussion's". I've never tried coating the bore, then firing a bullet, but would imagine there may be some pressure issues, not too different than firing a bullet down the bore with an obstruction in the bore. I did try fire-lapping with coated bullet a few years ago, followed directions to the letter, and in fact used the lightest grit recommended and after 20 rounds fired the throat had lengthened enough so some seated bullets would no longer touch the lands, and on a 30 cal. the bore diameter went from a slugged diameter of .308" to approx. .3085", as close as I could measure it. Accuracy went from minute of angle to 2 minutes of angle, so it was not a good experience for me, although I know others report success with fire-lapping. I've limited the use of JB (original blue label, not the red label polisher) to removing stubborn copper and carbon fouling. Would the JB stroked on a tight fitting patch smooth up the bore? Don't know, never tried it. If a factory barrel is rough enough to cause accuracy and cleaning issues, I replace it with a Hart, Krieger, Bartlein etc. barrel. Problem solved.
 
dracorex, I have done something similiar with JB on two different rifles. These were cast bullet rifles that were giving me a slight lead problem on extended shooting sessions. There is a thread about this over on the Castbulletassoc. site written by "Molly" don't remember the exact name of the thread but it involves rubbing JB on a jacket bullet and firing down a clean barrel, clean the barrel between shots and shoot bullets with JB pushed by a very moderate charge of slow burning powder. You want to get them down the barrel as slow as possible and still be safe. It worked for me shooting cast if you are having a problem with copper fouling this may not work you might have to go to the more abrasive lapping compounds or like someone above mentioned a new barrel.
 
fdshuster said:
I did try fire-lapping with coated bullet a few years ago, followed directions to the letter, and in fact used the lightest grit recommended and after 20 rounds fired the throat had lengthened enough so some seated bullets would no longer touch the lands, and on a 30 cal. the bore diameter went from a slugged diameter of .308" to approx. .3085", as close as I could measure it. Accuracy went from minute of angle to 2 minutes of angle, so it was not a good experience for me, although I know If a factory barrel is rough enough to cause accuracy and cleaning issues, I replace it with a Hart, Krieger, Bartlein etc. barrel. Problem solved.

dracorex,
Welcome to the forum, I had a .243 #670 win that shot excellent just was rough and was a pain in the a#* to clean so I impregnated naked bullets with fire lapping compound and followed the instructions to a tee, the rest of the story is the same as Franks.If real good accuracy is what what you really want, purchase the gun, leave it in the box and drive straight to your gun smiths for a barrel and truing job.
Wayne.
 
The NRA magazine published an article years ago about polishing rifle barrels, to help with barrel break in. The editor was testing 3m superabrasives and microfinishing system, JB, and something else. I wrote to 3m, about the article, they sent me the same system for free. This is micron grades 1,2,3,9,15,30; U.S. mesh grade 1200 for 9, 600 for 15, and 400 for 30.

For an example on this system uses, polishing computer floppy disks, glass, and it removed the scratches and polished my watch bezel. Yes, I used it on my hunting rifle, but with a lesser degree than what the editor did and really didn't notice any change, it still shoots the same today. At my job, we did hands on metallography on material failures to determine the root cause, it doesn't take long to remove material even on that scale either.

I would highly agree with Frank's thread "repercussion".

Steve
 
I have used Tubb's final finish, Tubb's throat maintenance system, as well as used bore lapping compound on cast bullets. I have had success with all 3, though I would be very cautious about using anything abrasive for barrel break-in. Reason being, there are some drawbacks to using these abrasive bullets. You will lose some throat, no way around it. They can make a good shooter worse, I have only used them when I had few other options and accuracy was an issue.

I used the cast bullet method on a few Mosin Nagants, which have an oversize bore anyway and require bullets from .310 to .312. I would likely only use this method on pitted barrels or on older mil-surps with oversize bores that have bore issues. The method offered by David Tubb are far better suited to a standard diameter barrel and are more precise and consistent as well. You also avoid any potential issues with leading in the rough bore, which adds some time to the process as well. But it is one of few options when dealing with an oversize bore and you want to avoid any potential issues or when you need to be very aggressive with a pitted bore.

The Tubb's Final Finish works very well if you use it by the directions and understand the drawbacks and only use it when necessary. If you have a badly fouling barrel or one that shoots inconsistently, they may be an option. But go slow and do accuracy testing to see if things are improving or getting worse before you go too far. I have used them to improve a 1.5 to 2 MOA rifle to a fairly consistent 1 MOA rifle, and also solved a severe fouling issue in another rifle.

The Tubb's throat maintenance system is a bit less abrasive and won't eat away at the barrel nearly as fast. I have used them to help smooth a throat in a rifle firing a hot round (6-284) and was able to see a bit of improvement when bore scoping afterward. It is not a miracle cure, but it did smooth the throat a bit when it initially started fire-cracking as well as help remove some deposits that were difficult to remove. I feel I may have had better results had I not let it go as far as it had before using them.

I have been using the Throat Maintenance System in my current .243 a bit as well. When the rifle needs to be cleaned (every 50-80 rounds) I will give it a scrubbing at the range and then fire 1 or 2 of the TMS bullets through the bore to remove any stubborn fouling and really clean the throat out. I then fully clean the bore when I return home. I have yet to see any significant loss of throat and it has made cleaning very easy. I have bore scoped it twice now, and the throat still looks excellent after about 250 rounds and the entire bore has smoothed out significantly since I first purchased it, as well as it is shooting much better as well. I just keep a box of 20 loaded TMS rounds in my range box so I can keep up with it.

Fire-Lapping can be beneficial if used when necessary. I would very cautious to use it as a "break-in" method, and I would likely use normal bullets for the shoot 1 and clean portion, and then shoot 5 round groups with the first bullet or the group being a final finish or TMS bullet and stop as soon as fouling went away.

Just use these bullets with caution and also very sparingly and you can have good results. They are not a "magic bullet" to make your factory barrel into a hand lapped custom. But they can be beneficial when you have a badly fouling or poorly shooting barrel, but still need to be used with caution. I would suggest bore scoping before to be sure the bore is rough, and again after to see how it has improved or degraded. Slugging is also recommended before and after.

Good luck.

Kenny

EDIT: I will agree that if nail driving accuracy is your goal and the factory barrel isn't a shooter, a custom barrel is the BEST option. The lapping systems can help, but will never make a bad barrel into a great one, or even a good barrel into a great one. They can however, make an OK barrel into a decent to good barrel, but again, they will never produce miracles.
 
1+ on what Kenny474 said, I have used the Tubb bullets on factory barrels that had fouling/acc issues and they helped..but If i,m looking for something more ,I go after-market~Danny B
 
There was an article in "Precision Shooting" not long ago called "Shoot Lapping", which is very similar to what you are considering. IMO, that method would be less abusive to the bore, and the lead particularly. However, it would probably be too mild for a really rough bore. I actually used the shoot lapping method on a Bartein match grade barrel that continued to copper too long as I broke it in & started load development. It did get rid of the coppering in only a few treatments.

Another fire lapping method is "Puff-Lon". Our gun club manager has one of their kits and that method seems as plausible as any of the others I have seen or read about. Whatever you try, be sure to share the results.
 

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