Fire Forming With Cream Of Wheat

[ccg]

I just read an article on fire forming with cream of wheat in a .260 AI. I am not familiar with this process or with cream of wheat. I assume cream of wheat has the dry consistency of oatmeal. Do you just pour the cream of wheat over the powder charge or do you use some kind of wad between the powder and the cream of wheat? Do you leave it loose in the case or do you pack it?

I have a .260 being built and would like to save the cost of the bullets and powder.

 

[Magical_Merlin]

No wad between powder and COW is needed. Just dont tip the loaded cases until you are putting them in the chamber. I use a little wad of toilet paper to hold everything in. I use this method for my 260AI also. Good luck.

 

[spclark]

Typically a faster powder is used for this procedure than the usual types of rifle powders. Something more on the speed of Universal Clays or Bullseye, but in a pistol-case quantity: 5 to 8 or 9 grains, depending on the case size.

The cream of wheat,or corn meal, or uncooked grits for that matter) is there to fill the case & keep the pressure of the burning charge in the case long enough to do the work needed; the toilet paper plug,I've heard of some folks using a wad of polyester pillow stuffing) keeps everything in the case until it's in the chamber to fire.

I've heard tell those lucky enough to be living in a place where the noise wouldn't cause problems to run this operation out behind a garage or barn, or even firing into a garbage can inside a garage or other storage building. Just use proper ear & eye protection as the noise can be considerable, and the filler material is going to make a mess.

 

[dmickey]

Personally, I just buy a batch of bulk bullets. Then I look up what powder gives the most pressure and pick a load three-quarters of the way from starting load to maximum. Forms the brass fine on the first try! And no guessing what would be too little or too much powder!

 

[choochoomud]

13 grains of 2400 on my 280 ack imp works just fine

 

[mikeearly]

I typically take advantage of fire forming to work on my benchrest technique ... I am fire forming for 6 PPC .... have had very good luck working on groups when fire forming getting quite reasonable groupings and sure as heck improving my rest management ... guess I was hungry the cream of wheat thing might be interesting however........ this is what works for me --- you milage may vary considerably .....

 

[Ackman]

Every time this cream o wheat thing comes up I'm just amazed that people even bother wasting their time with that stuff.....to 'save the cost of bullets and powder.'

Fireforming AI cartridges is stupid simple. Use real bullets......choose a bullet and powder you plan to use with formed cases. Start at a top end load for the parent cartridge and work up to an accuracy load just as you would any standard cartridge. 1) Your fireform load will use more powder than a top end load for the std. 260.....with that case velocity will be pretty close to what it'll be with formed brass. 2) Your fireform load will be as accurate as with formed brass. 3) Each case will be perfectly formed. Think of 'fireforming' loads as working loads that happen to also produce a formed AI case, because that's what they are. Now you have a good-shooting load very close to - or the same as - what it'll be with formed brass. The 308/243/260 case already has an AI-diameter shoulder so it mostly blows forward.....body taper changes only a little.

 

[Clark]

We bought a lathe, 257 Roberts Ackley Improved reamer, and,4) light varmint taper Lothar Walther barrel blanks back in 2000-2001-2002.

We cut threads and chambers and put them on Mausers.
I made the first one for myself.
I used a new piece of Winchester 257 Roberts brass as the go gauge, and got my trued VZ24 action with lapped lugs to just close on the go gauge, so I could just barley feel the case was in there at the bottom of the bolt handle stroke.

Mistake.
The firing pin will crush the 257R brass in a 257RAI chamber at the base of the neck with the sharp edged ring cutting into the brass. The chamber should have been head spaced .004' shorter.
If normal loads are used, the case will separate 0.1' behind the shoulder.


We did not make that mistake again, but my rifle shoots so well, I did not want to take it apart and set the barrel back .004'. On a low wind day, it has shot 0.45' 5 shots at 100 meters.


So anyway, I have tried, I think documented 100 experiments into fire forming brass in my 257RAI chamber.

And the winner is........
1) Lube the case with moly.
2) Charge the case with 10 gr of any pistol powder.
3) Fill the rest of the case with cream of wheat
4) Fire straight up or put soap in the case mouth to hold the COW.
5) This forms the shoulder taper in ~ 1/2 the area possible. Load with 257RAI full loads and get full accuracy.
6) The case is now formed.

 

[WANTASHOOT]

Ackman

I just wanted to make sure I understand what your saying.

If I was fire forming for a 6.5-06 Ackley I would start with a load about 3/4 of max for the 6.5-06 and fire it correct.

Would the false shoulder method still work when fire forming this way. I didn't want to use up my Match kings fire forming and I fear I wont be able to reach the lands with lighter bullets.

 

[Ackman]

Ackman

I just wanted to make sure I understand what your saying.

If I was fire forming for a 6.5-06 Ackley I would start with a load about 3/4 of max for the 6.5-06 and fire it correct.

Would the false shoulder method still work when fire forming this way. I didn't want to use up my Match kings fire forming and I fear I wont be able to reach the lands with lighter bullets.

An AI chamber is larger than the parent cartridge and a std. case blows out quite a bit. A max load in the parent cartridge would be so mild in the AI version you'd never consider using it. I've no experience with a 6.5-06, but fireforming I'd start with a max load for the 6.5-06 and go from there and look for accuracy.

These are examples from a couple of my rifles using Speer bullets.

The Speer max load for .243 with 70TNT = 46.0gr/W760 = 3333, 22' Ruger barrel.

,243AI....Best fireform loads with 70TNT = 48.1-48.7gr/W760 = 3824-3866, 26' PacNor barrel


Another:

Speer max load for .257R+P load with 87TNT = 47.0gr/W760 = 3163, 22' Ruger barrel

.257AI.....Accurate fireform load with 87TNT = 50.5/W760 = 3664, 28' LaBounty barrel

Just a couple examples. These fireform loads are way past loading book max for the parent cartridge, and velocities are much faster. That's how it is with AI cartridges. Find a good accurate fireform load just as you would a standard cartridge and then use it. People who mess with fillers thinking they'll be saving money and barrel life and avoiding 'the hassles of fireforming' just don't get it. These aren't separate 'fireform' loads, they're working loads. They're a lot faster than the standard version and just as accurate. I gutpiled countless prairie dogs and rockchucks using those loads.

Whether or not bullets touch the lands depends on your chamber. It's easy to find out what's what by using a split neck case. About the false shoulder, no. Wildcats yes. But an AI chamber is meant to work with factory ammunition and doesn't need a false shoulder. Even your 6.5-06 shouldn't use a false shoulder.

 

[Tommie]

I'll second,or third) the opinion that the best method of fireforming is the old-fashioned way with bullets. As we all know, the beauty of an Ackley chambering versus a true 'wildcat' is the ability to shoot the standard stuff. I tried the Cream o' Wheat thing and wasn't impressed. Case shoulders weren't fully formed and that cereal has to go somewhere after the trigger is pulled - major mess.

Tom

 

[Rustystud]

I have fire formed cases every way stated. I have a Hornady Hydraulic form die set ordered to form 6mmBR cases to 6mmBRX.

I will write and article and post pictures after I have tested the process. It sounds like a no brainer.

I suggest anyone with a case forming questions call Lonnie Humble at Hornady and see if he can make you a hydraulic form die.
Nat Lambeth

 

[expiper]

I have also used the methods described here and have settled on the method that uses only unique/2400/universal clays/etc.,powder with a med shotgun burn rate) and a square of toilet paper tamped down on top of it..very simple and easy and cheeeepp..
This is the way that one of the most famos gun bbl. companies in the US does it with one of their 30 cal wildcat chamberings...they have a 'shop' bbl dedicated to forming the case from 300 H&H brass and have formed thousands of rounds with it,with NO noticalbe wear! For years I had heard that fireforming without a bullet wore the bbl out just like using a bullet...however their results do not agree with that 'theory'...soo,,, I have adopted their method for myself....nuthin to buy,no bullets wasted, NO bbl wear...shoot around 20 and then let the bbl cool...even though it gets hot it aparantely does no wear, just warms it up...then load another 20 and shoot them....for 30-06 size cases I use around 25gr of Universal Clays,that is the slowest of the three Clays/Internationl/Universal),,,dont use the fast one ...it is equal to 'Bullseye'!!....Start a lil lower than 25 on a few old throw away cases and work your way up ...when you are 'there' they will look perfect....Roger