Fire forming .22-250 40° Ackley...

[MattWard]

Hi.

I know this info is probably tucked away somewhere but I can't seem to find it.
I have a Model 70 in .22-250 that I am getting a Kreiger Heavy Sporter 1:12 fitted to on the 17th of Feb. It is getting chambered in 40° Ackley so I need a load for fireforming,I have the dies). I'm also an experienced reloader but have never had an "improved" cartridge.
I'm not real keen on using Bullseye with no projectiles so will do it the normal way, the trouble is that I'm in Oz so need a load using Hodgon powders which are the same as our ADI. Even though we can get most brands of powder here they are bloody expensive, diificult to get sometimes, and end up uneconomical when shooting as much as I do.
I have 50 and 55 grain projectiles to load with and pretty well the full range of ADI powders at my disposal.
Any help you can give me will be greatly appreciated. If any aussies have a suitable load with ADI powders that'd be great too.

Thanks in advance,
Matt Ward

 

[coyotekiller]

Matt, Just use a near max load for the 22-250 and you should get good sharp corners. I use 35.5gr of varget to fireform in my shilen 22-250 ackley, it forms excellent and shoots extremely well. Doug

 

[MattWard]

Thanks Doug.

I had read that you use pretty warm loads for fireforming but wasn't sure if this was the best method or not. Have 200 new Win cases coming this week for fireforming. Probably only do 100 to start with. I think Varget is the same as our AR2208, have it on my computer somewhere so will check.

Regards,
Matt Ward

 

[Forum Boss]

Matt, FYI QuickLOAD is showing a load of ADI AR 2208,aka Varget) with a 55gr Sierra Blitz-king, 2.400" overall length, is running 55600 psi with 35.5 grains 2208. CIP Max is 58700 though many guys run hotter in good brass.

Keeping in mind that QuickLOAD can be off up to 10%, you might want to start a few cases a bit lower. Your actual chamber dimensions, bore diam., bullet type, and seating depth all make a difference.

2208 is also a bit notorious for lot to lot variations.

Personally I bet 35.5 will be OK, but I wouldn't load up a whole bunch at that level. I would try a few at 33.5, 34.5 and look at your primers, look at the shoulders. If you get a "green light" move up to Doug's suggested 35.5.

It's perfectly OK if the cases take two firings to really form up just right.

 

[MattWard]

Thanks "editor in chief".

Wasn't planning on loading up 35.5gns of 2208 straight away. You're right that it will more than likely be OK but if its not I hate pulling bullets so will certainly start lighter and the same as you've suggested. Thanks. Looking forward to finally rivalling my brother's pesky Swift.

 

[shcal]

Matt:
I have a 22-250 AI and I use primarily 37grs of H-4350 as fire forming loads and varmint hunting loads with 80gr SMK's. I know some people that load up as much as 39grs of H-4350 for varmint hunting and fire forming. I have always had good luck with my recipe, nice clean shoulders. I really cannot see the accuracy difference in fire forming vs. fire formed brass.
shcal.

 

[MattWard]

Thanks shcal but will only be shooting a max of 60 grain projectiles. Have a 1:12 twist which wouldn't stabilise the 80 grainers too well. I have no need to go that heavy with only a sporter as the longest shots I'll probably take will be 500 yards or so. Any furthur and I have a varmint .25-06

 

[Mike]

In my Ackley I have mostly used 760 but am in the process of working up new loads using AR2206H, due to availability issues. I would recommend 35.5 gn with the 55 gn bullet.
I have also had more luck with brass,Winchester) that has been annealed.
Who is building your gun?

 

[MattWard]

Nobody is really "building" my gun,ie: its not a custom job by any means - especially price!). I bought a Mod 70 for a bargain,AU$350 with Leupold mounts and cheap 3-9x40). It is in mint condition but the barrel is badly pitted. Despite this it still shoots MOA but is a pig to clean. Have got a 1:12 Kreiger barrel and am getting Sprinter Arms in Hahndorf, South Oz to chamber,crown, and fit it. I would send it interstate to get built up properly by a gunsmith,no really good ones in this state) but to send a rifle out of South Oz it has to go via an SA gunsmith to an interstate gunsmith,stupid laws) which adds too much to the cost. I have had previous barrels made and fitted by Sprinter Arms and Keith Bridgeman does a bloody good job. I would have got a Sprinter barrel made for it but he won't lap barrels in and despite being bloody accurate the odd one is a real dog to clean.

 

[Mike]

Sounds like a good rig, mine is a Winchester rebarreled also, shoots good and cases last forever.

 

[Wild_Bill]

Hi Mat go to your gunshop and for $# they will hand over an ADI reloading guide they have pressure tested data for the 22-250AI or you can srech for ADI smokless handloaders guide on the internet all the data is there no need to look anywhere else.

But your fire formin loads should be max loads for the standard 250 also in the manual

Cheers Bill
Australia

 

[Mike]

I dont like the data in the ADI book for the Ackley, I think it is very conservative.

 

[MattWard]

I already have their handbook thanks Bill and all of their info off the net and I'm with you Mike, they quote lower velocities in their handbook for projectiles under 60gn in a 40° Ackley with a 26" barrel than they do for the standard .22-250 with a 24" barrel. They've been around the quoted velocity with every other calibre I've previously reloaded for though!,.222, .243, .308, .303, .30-30, .25-06, .220 Swift, and .22-250). Hope it turns out to be accurate.

For interests sake I sighted in my Tikka T3 SS Varmint in .25-06 yesterday and for some reason it groups the 75gn VMax into just on an inch at 100m but into 1 1/4" at 200m? This happened with my previous M700BDL-DM in .25-06 using 100gn Speer HP except that rifle grouped the same at 200m as it did at 100m,around 15-20mm)! Another bit of info about my .25-06 is that it doesn't seem to like the 117gn Hornady SST projectiles and these grouped around 3-4" at 100m, yet my previous rifle loved them with the same 1:10 twist barrel The .25-06 is still my favorite calibre though

 

[Wild_Bill]

Most people load the AI cases over what the pressure levels are published as. The 40 degree shoulder allows safe loading to above stated pressures but powder manufacturers cant print it. I use it as a starting point and work to what is safe in your rifle.

Cheers Bill

 

[rpatowers]

Another issue to pay attention to when fireforming Ackley cartridges is headspacing.

If the gunsmith is worth his salt, he will cut the chamber to minimum length so the parent case will headspace in the improved chamber on the junction of the neck and the shoulder. If this is not the case,no pun intended, well ... maybe), you will need to seat your bullet out a bit so it contacts the rifling and holds the case back against the bolt face. If this is required, you should use lighter loads so as not to get too much pressure. However, even with stiff loads Ackley cartridges often have to be fireformed twice before you get a good, sharp shoulder. I've had three Ackley rifles, a .22-250 AI, a .280 AI, and a 6MM AI, so that is where I'm coming from.

You will love this cartridge!

 

[MattWard]

Thanks for that info and its something that I hadn't considered. He normally does cut pretty tight chambers though. Something to watch out for though! Can't wait.

 

[Wild_Bill]

The head space guages for an Ackley cartrige are suposed to be 4 thou shorter to allow a crush fit on the case when fire forming ask sprinter if they have designated 22-250AI guages if not get them to fit the Go Guage for the 22-250 then cut another 4 thou off the barrel shoulder to give the correct clearence also nake sure the gunsmith chambers to zero clearence on the guages some feel if it lands between the co and no go its ok that means you have 4 thou clearence and that means normal 22-250 not 22-250AI the other way is give them a case from the batch of cases you will be using and tell them you want 4 thou crush on the case and forget about thr guages then the cases WILL fit the chamber correctly. Just remember to work up loads slowly as every rifle is different one load in one rifle may blow another up.

Cheers Bill
Australia

 

[MattWard]

Thanks Bill. Picked my rifle up today and Keith Bridgeman at Sprinter Arms had adjusted the crush and test fired it with factory Winchester and PMC loads and all looked good. The cases had fireformed perfectly. Managed to get a 27" barrel out of the Kreiger blank and he cut an inch off the end. Can't wait to shoot it and am about to do some loading. Bought the latest Nick Harvey reloading manual too that has Ackley data in it. Thanks for everybody's input and will let you know soon how it shoots and some of the velocities I'm getting.

Matt

 

[Mike]

Let me know if you try 2206H, I havnt had a chance to do much more.

 

[Ogre6br]

Mattward- just asking why did you go the 40 degree shoulder version instead of the 28 degree version??

I have never had much luck getting the 40 degree vesions of any AI cartridges I have owned to feed properly from a magazine witth a full magazine.

MY 223 AI used to work fine with 1 up and 3 in but try and fit all 6 in the mag and it wouldn't work.


I noticed it is a 1:12 twist so I'm assuming it's a varmint rifle not a BR gun.

Or do you just single load??

later
P