Ffp scopes???

[pdhntr]

I have a somewhat different opinion, but maybe there's something wrong with my scopes. I bought 2 FFP Leupolds for my pd rifles. A 4.5-20 and a 6.5-25 both with the "christmas tree" reticles.

Very nice scopes but after mounting them and working with them for a while I noticed that the eye relief changes with magnification. You have to get closer to the eye piece when turning down the magnification or you end up with a black ring.

I set them up so I get a full view in the eye piece at the power I usually use on the prairie, but I would never mount one on a hunting rifle that is used for anything other than hunting from a stand.

I can imagine having to shoot quickly and the scope accidentally being turned down to the lowest power and causing issues.

The boys making the drive would want a good reason why the old man let them down, and they can be downright mean sometimes.

Jim

 

[Rem06]

I can imagine having to shoot quickly and the scope accidentally being turned down to the lowest power and causing issues

? confused there?

why wouldn't you want your scope on the lowest power on a drive, for a quick shot?

 

[Darwin]

I do not understand the appeal to FFP scopes but that does not mean i wouldnt like to learn. What i dont get is the reticle on low power you can hardly see it and on high power over half the reticle dissapears so maybe they are used in a way that i dont know so explain

I thought same til I ended up with FFP for power range and glass. At 6x it’s a crosshair like an old Weaver4x with the same FOV. At 15x the 36moa grid fills the FOV and is easily readable. At 36x there is 12moa is visible but the eye box tightens up so about 8 is useable. With a .1moa floating dot and 36x it’s a decent target shooter.
At 15x the floating dot turns into a square hole.
Didn’t see that one coming.
I’d like to try a heavier or lit tree that makes the reticle appear more like a post on low power.

 

[Hammer101st]

I thought same til I ended up with FFP for power range and glass. At 6x it’s a crosshair like an old Weaver4x with the same FOV. At 15x the 36moa grid fills the FOV and is easily readable. At 36x there is 12moa is visible but the eye box tightens up so about 8 is useable. With a .1moa floating dot and 36x it’s a decent target shooter.
At 15x the floating dot turns into a square hole.
Didn’t see that one coming.
I’d like to try a heavier or lit tree that makes the reticle appear more like a post on low power.

See thats what im talkin about it all sounds good untill your at either end of the power magnifacation if you cant use all the power levels whats the point? So when its all said an done a sfp scope has to be on the right power to have accurate subtentions and ffp scope to use most of the reticle it has to be on the right power. So the trade off is were?

 

[pdhntr]

? confused there?

why wouldn't you want your scope on the lowest power on a drive, for a quick shot?

No, I am not confused at all. Reread my post carefully.

I do want it on the lowest power. The lowest power works very well with a SFP scope on a drive.

However, the FFP scopes (2) that I have, on the lowest power, the lines, dots and hashes become so fine as to almost blend together so you seem to be looking at a mesh instead of a cross hair. It is especially bad with a darker background.

So you need to dial up the power. Doing so causes the eye relief to change.

Jim

 

[ckrifles]

I have a somewhat different opinion, but maybe there's something wrong with my scopes. I bought 2 FFP Leupolds for my pd rifles. A 4.5-20 and a 6.5-25 both with the "christmas tree" reticles.

Very nice scopes but after mounting them and working with them for a while I noticed that the eye relief changes with magnification. You have to get closer to the eye piece when turning down the magnification or you end up with a black ring.

I set them up so I get a full view in the eye piece at the power I usually use on the prairie, but I would never mount one on a hunting rifle that is used for anything other than hunting from a stand.

I can imagine having to shoot quickly and the scope accidentally being turned down to the lowest power and causing issues.

The boys making the drive would want a good reason why the old man let them down, and they can be downright mean sometimes.

Jim

The eye relief changes with magnification on all scopes when you change power. weather 1ffp or 2ffp.

 

[Beiruty]

If hunting at 75 yards, a deer or similarly sized animal, bring out your trusty 3-9X scope from 1950s. That is all what you need.
Bench rest shooters perfer 2ndF with superfine reticle, either fixed or variable, they usually they pick the zoom factor of choice
All other shooters are moving to FFP with MRADs tree like reticles

 

[SSL]

No, I am not confused at all. Reread my post carefully.

I do want it on the lowest power. The lowest power works very well with a SFP scope on a drive.

However, the FFP scopes (2) that I have, on the lowest power, the lines, dots and hashes become so fine as to almost blend together so you seem to be looking at a mesh instead of a cross hair. It is especially bad with a darker background.

So you need to dial up the power. Doing so causes the eye relief to change.

Jim

I understand exactly what you mean. For hunting such as deer and things, I prefer a SFP for exactly that reason. A couple of my deer rifles have SFP scopes with subtensions for varying distances. I just zero for an intermediate range and then mark the values of the various marks at varying power settings on my flip-up scope covers. Commonly, this is listed at a mid-range power and the maximum power.
I have come to like FFP scopes for my varmint rifles simply because the stadia can be used to assist in range estimation and I don't have to be using the turrets to constantly adjust. Yes, at highest power the lines often run off the view, but the majority of what I need is visible. I don't shoot past 600 yards or so anyway, so those marks stay clearly visible.
This combination of SFP and FFP scopes work for my use but might not be what others need. To each his own according to their requirements.

 

[Darwin]

See thats what im talkin about it all sounds good untill your at either end of the power magnifacation if you cant use all the power levels whats the point? So when its all said an done a sfp scope has to be on the right power to have accurate subtentions and ffp scope to use most of the reticle it has to be on the right power. So the trade off is were?

SFP IS A POWER COMPROMISE
FFP IS A RETICLE COMPROMISE
Pick your poison.

 

[Downeast]

I purchased a FFP Mildot scope (Vortex) and mounted it on my .257 Wby to deer hunt big fields. I had measured quite a few dead deer and found that the average depth of the body from just behind the shoulder to the brisket was 18 inches. At least that is the average for here in se NC where a 150 pound whitetail is a very nice whitetail So I used the formula...
"multiply the object's height or width by 1000, then divide that number by the number of mils the object spans in your scope. "

I sat down and made me a range table plugging in various mils based on 18 inches. You just have to use the same measurement, be it feet, yards, or meters. I used yards (18/36 =0.5) instead of inches. I can't recall the numbers off the top of my head but it works. A deer was grazing out in a field so I "milled" him, checked my table and the distance was somewhere around 430 yards. So I dialed up the appropriate amount and took him out. DRT. I was simply amazed but if you can learn to use a mildot reticle (its in 10's instead of 1/4 or 1/8 silliness) you can learn to range targets if you know their dimensions. That's what the military guys do. Average shoulder width of adult men (16 inches), standard door size, and so forth. It works.

 

[Rem06]

However, the FFP scopes (2) that I have, on the lowest power, the lines, dots and hashes become so fine as to almost blend together so you seem to be looking at a mesh instead of a cross hair. It is especially bad with a darker background.

sorry,i wasn't saying you were confused, i was.

now i understand. i have vortex pst gen one and gen 2 ffp and they have thick bars like a duplex on low power a, yes the crosshairs become small but at close range you dont need the lines. they blend in to be just a bar.

my buddy said the same thing till a doe came rushing in at 40yds and i handed him my gun and pow, DRT and i was on low power and asked " now , did you have a problem with that"

"NOPE"

use the "mesh" as a solid line as you dont need holdover.

maybe your leupold dont have the thicker bar? idk?



scope on 5x. see what i mean? you dont need the fine holdover lines at that range, they work just fine

 

[pdhntr]

sorry,i wasn't saying you were confused, i was.

now i understand. i have vortex pst gen one and gen 2 ffp and they have thick bars like a duplex on low power a, yes the crosshairs become small but at close range you dont need the lines. they blend in to be just a bar.

my buddy said the same thing till a doe came rushing in at 40yds and i handed him my gun and pow, DRT and i was on low power and asked " now , did you have a problem with that"

"NOPE"

use the "mesh" as a solid line as you dont need holdover.

maybe your leupold dont have the thicker bar? idk?

View attachment 1364188View attachment 1364190

scope on 5x. see what i mean? you dont need the fine holdover lines at that range, they work just fine

Yes, I see what you mean. Yours is usable at low power. Mine have triangles at the sides that correspond to the crosshairs and I would not be comfortable with them at all.

I'm not being argumentative here Rem06, but I don't need, and don't want to use a FFP scope on my deer rifle. I am perfectly happy with the 1-4 power SFP scope I have on it. It's compact, relatively cheap to replace if damaged, and it has shot more deer than I can count. Three on one drive alone. That is what it was designed to do.

If I was sitting in a stand needing to make shots over a long distance, I might put a FFP scope on a rifle and I'm sure I would like it. I would pick a scope that was designed to work in that situation.

The two FFP scopes I have on my pd rifles are a pleasure to use, and I can't imagine finding anything better to replace them with. With the christmas tree type reticle they seem like they are designed to be used for that purpose, shooting in wind at varying distances.

Jim

 

[Tarmacshooter]

Start shooting PRS style matches, you’ll learn to use one real quick.

 

[3Sigma]

For hunting, a FFP needs an illuminated reticle if low light conditions are expected. if it has that, and isn't too busy or cluttered, I think it is superior for the field.

I took my first deer with a FFP (Sightron 3-16 x 42) with a 308 at 250 yards holding 2.5 MRAD. It was early in the morning, but illumination helped a lot. No worries about scope magnification or dialing turrets. I'm moving all my hunting scopes with ranging reticles to FFP with illumination. I still have a Leupold VX5 with duplex, but it has their nice CDS system and is married to that rifle.

I will say, if you know your rifle well, anything under 300 yards is simple with a duplex. As such, I have been a SFP guy for a long time and this scope was my first step into that world.