Felt recoil

[CamTheBam]

Everything else being equal, would a 6mm CM shooting a 110gn projectile and a .308WIN also shooting a 110gn projectile, have the same felt recoil?

Every force has an equal and opposite force etc.?

 

[6BRA]

Are you trying to determine which to buy? Weight of gun, setup on rest, both calibers are light. Easiest way to reduce felt recoil is a good brake. Other shooters won't like you shooting a brake as extra noisy. However it will reduce a 308 shooting 168s to .223 level recoil. If a person had time you might be able to come up with some pressure charts on quickloads. Too many variables to consider.

 

[drover]

JBM ballistics has a recoil calculator, put in the appropriate data and it will give you all the info you need.

drover

 

[dellet]

It depends.

Basic factors are rifle, charge and bullet weight, velocity. Most calculators only take in those factors. Quickload uses other factors and will give you basically time under pressure for recoils.

This calculator is somewhere in between.

Recoil Calculator

a free calculator for rifle recoil, which works in standard browsers

kwk.us

I played with this a few years ago using a 45-70 since I could count on feed back. I found two loads that would produce the same velocity, with the same powder charge. Using distinctly different burn rates, 4100 and 5744. The “feeling” in the recoil was significant. The old punch vs push that people talk about.
The loads had distinctly different pressure curves it made a significant difference is being able to be ready for a follow up shot.

I got a lot of help and feed back from others here.

Powder choice/burn rate and recoil. How are they related, How do you predict or measure effect?

After a few years of ignoring them, I started shooting my single shot rifles again. Two things have happened in that time. I've gained some knowledge about loading, and I have gained some years. It did not take too many shots to remember why casual competitive shooting was too many rounds in a...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[David Milisock]

Everything else being equal, would a 6mm CM shooting a 110gn projectile and a .308WIN also shooting a 110gn projectile, have the same felt recoil?

Every force has an equal and opposite force etc.?

A calculator will get you so far, however you ask about felt recoil, stock design has a great deal to do with that.

 

[Tommie]

Everything else being equal, would a 6mm CM shooting a 110gn projectile and a .308WIN also shooting a 110gn projectile, have the same felt recoil?

Every force has an equal and opposite force etc.?

In this example there likely would be another variable besides for the slightly larger case capacity in the .308 Win. The 6 Creedmoor would be burning a considerably slower powder which would have a different recoil impulse.

 

[CamTheBam]

In this example there likely would be another variable besides for the slightly larger case capacity in the .308 Win. The 6 Creedmoor would be burning a considerably slower powder which would have a different recoil impulse.

Yes, I suspect powder/burn rate will have a significant influence on punch/shove felt recoil. 308 always seems to punch rather than shove.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Yes, I suspect powder/burn rate will have a significant influence on punch/shove felt recoil. 308 always seems to punch rather than shove.

All else equal, A larger bore will prefer a faster powder. That alone generally means a little less powder to do the same work. Powder weight is often overlooked as a factor in recoil calculation and so is muzzle pressure. Lower muzzle pressure is generally seen with faster powders as are lower charge weights. So you have two things here that reduce recoil. Less powder weight and lower muzzle pressures. Combined, they make a noticeable enough difference in felt recoil WITH A GUN YOU ARE INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH. That difference gets lost in the noise of two different guns and stock designs, etc.

 

[Dave M.]

Everything else being equal, would a 6mm CM shooting a 110gn projectile and a .308WIN also shooting a 110gn projectile, have the same felt recoil?

Every force has an equal and opposite force etc.?

Need to know the weight of each rifle and muzzle velocity. Kinetic energy = 0.5mv^2 with m = projectile mass and v = muzzle velocity.
The first part of the puzzle is to calculate the KE of both projectiles. Then you have to understand the mass of both rifle setups and you can further calculate the felt recoil.
Dave

 

[xswanted]

Everything else being equal, would a 6mm CM shooting a 110gn projectile and a .308WIN also shooting a 110gn projectile, have the same felt recoil?

Every force has an equal and opposite force etc.?

If everything is equal meaning rifles are the same weight and bullets are flying the same speed, using the same powder, you should have more of it in the 308 case thus making it recoil more than the 6mm. Having said that, it'd be hard to use the same powder to get the same speed from both rifles.

 

[KMart]

That difference gets lost in the noise of two different guns and stock designs, etc.

Stock design and fit has more to do with recoil than most of us know. Years ago, I bought a new Perazzi MX-3 O/U and I wasn't having much luck getting the thing to shoot where I was looking. I drove to Warsaw Mo. and Fred Wenig at Fajen made a new stock and fitted it to me. When I got it back, it shot where I looked and virtually all the recoil was gone. I was now a happy camper with empty pockets.

 

[spudgun]

It depends.

Basic factors are rifle, charge and bullet weight, velocity. Most calculators only take in those factors. Quickload uses other factors and will give you basically time under pressure for recoils.

This calculator is somewhere in between.

Recoil Calculator

a free calculator for rifle recoil, which works in standard browsers

kwk.us

I played with this a few years ago using a 45-70 since I could count on feed back. I found two loads that would produce the same velocity, with the same powder charge. Using distinctly different burn rates, 4100 and 5744. The “feeling” in the recoil was significant. The old punch vs push that people talk about.
The loads had distinctly different pressure curves it made a significant difference is being able to be ready for a follow up shot.

I got a lot of help and feed back from others here.

Powder choice/burn rate and recoil. How are they related, How do you predict or measure effect?

After a few years of ignoring them, I started shooting my single shot rifles again. Two things have happened in that time. I've gained some knowledge about loading, and I have gained some years. It did not take too many shots to remember why casual competitive shooting was too many rounds in a...

forum.accurateshooter.com

Burn rate will effect the recoil.

I was thinking of using my 7mm Mag for 600 yd shooting and after going through some ladder testing with my regular powder my shoulder was telling me this ain't going to work.

I decided to try a slower burning powder (H1000) and I was supprised that now my 7mm Mag was giving me a push instead of the sharp recoil that the faster powder was producing.

It was easier on my shoulder after 20 or 30 rounds and I was producing some good groups too.

Well decided to shoot the 6.5 Cm and put the big boy away.

 

[Ray123]

I felt recoil on Independence Day...40 rds of 50BMG, 100 rds 308, 45 colt and 380 acp.
It was a joy to shoot the 308 after 40 rds of 50BMG. The 45 Colt has more recoil than the 380.
My best 50BMG 5 shot group was the last one after my shoulder was getting tender. I noticed the I wasn't shooting as good as the rifle is capable as I was trying 3 different powders and 2 bullets. So I analyzed my prone shooting, and applied extra concentration on loading the bipod and same hold and pressure, with better trigger control and was rewarded with 5 647 FMJ 50BMG into one inch, eventhough my shoulder was sore.
So recoil is kind of mental interruptor, if ya let it.
And with "much" lesser recoiling caliber I tend to shoot better eaiser, as it is one less mental interruptor. But for me it has to be a large difference for the distraction...for me..308, 6 5 Creed are the same feel, the dasher less, and all are easily handled.
300 mags & 338 mags next step up I feel, then the .416, and the last step in noticeable recoil difference for me is the 50BMG

 

[ben lurkin]

In identical guns shooting the same velocity with the same weight powder charge, the recoil is the same. Diameter is irrelevant to the calculation.

 

[FeMan]

There are two components to felt recoil. The first is kinetic energy. As stated above, it is 1/2mv^2. The mass of the bullet times its acceleration will equal the mass of the rifle times its acceleration.

The second and largest component is the muzzle blast, or propulsion effect of the gasses leaving the muzzle and pushing the rifle back like a jet engine. This is related to muzzle pressure and bore diameter. This is what a good muzzle brake tames. A longer barrel or faster powder can help a lot too.

 

[big5ifty]

There are two components to felt recoil. The first is kinetic energy. As stated above, it is 1/2mv^2. The mass of the bullet times its acceleration will equal the mass of the rifle times its acceleration.

The second and largest component is the muzzle blast, or propulsion effect of the gasses leaving the muzzle and pushing the rifle back like a jet engine. This is related to muzzle pressure and bore diameter. This is what a good muzzle brake tames. A longer barrel or faster powder can help a lot too.

I'm not convinced that the kinetic energy of anything other than the gas produced has anything to do with recoil.

I am convinced that recoil is produced proportional to the volume and velocity of gas exiting the muzzle in the direction that the barrel is pointing.

Which is why a good brake can mostly eliminate recoil. The portion of recoil remaining after the gas is dissipated through a brake is from the portion of gas following the bullet.

A shoulder fired rocket launcher has no recoil because the gas produced is not pushing against the system. The projectile is heavy compared to any rifle bullet, with orders of magnitude more gas than from a rifle cartridge. There is no felt recoil from the projectile traveling down the launch tube.

You can get an idea of this yourself if you load a suitable cartridge with substantially different quantities of a faster and slower burning powder. Loading the same bullet to the same velocity, the higher mass of slower burning powder produces a noticable increase in felt recoil over the lower mass of faster burning powder. I noticed this when testing my 500 Jeffery with IMR 4166 and IMR 4451. There is a +- 20% increase in the mass of 4451, to get a bullet to the same velocity as with 4166, and you can feel it.

 

[KMart]

There are two components to felt recoil. The first is kinetic energy. As stated above, it is 1/2mv^2. The mass of the bullet times its acceleration will equal the mass of the rifle times its acceleration.

The second and largest component is the muzzle blast, or propulsion effect of the gasses leaving the muzzle and pushing the rifle back like a jet engine. This is related to muzzle pressure and bore diameter. This is what a good muzzle brake tames. A longer barrel or faster powder can help a lot too.

There is one more component to felt recoil. That is direction of the recoil. That is where stock design and gun fit come into play.

 

[DirtySteve]

Not sure you are looking at this from the best perspective. Look at it this way, between the two the 6mm bullet will have a better BC..

 

[FeMan]

There is one more component to felt recoil. That is direction of the recoil. That is where stock design and gun fit come into play.

Agreed. I forgot that one!

 

[BoydAllen]

I'm not convinced that the kinetic energy of anything other than the gas produced has anything to do with recoil.

I am convinced that recoil is produced proportional to the volume and velocity of gas exiting the muzzle in the direction that the barrel is pointing.

Which is why a good brake can mostly eliminate recoil. The portion of recoil remaining after the gas is dissipated through a brake is from the portion of gas following the bullet.

A shoulder fired rocket launcher has no recoil because the gas produced is not pushing against the system. The projectile is heavy compared to any rifle bullet, with orders of magnitude more gas than from a rifle cartridge. There is no felt recoil from the projectile traveling down the launch tube.

You can get an idea of this yourself if you load a suitable cartridge with substantially different quantities of a faster and slower burning powder. Loading the same bullet to the same velocity, the higher mass of slower burning powder produces a noticable increase in felt recoil over the lower mass of faster burning powder. I noticed this when testing my 500 Jeffery with IMR 4166 and IMR 4451. There is a +- 20% increase in the mass of 4451, to get a bullet to the same velocity as with 4166, and you can feel it.

In the case of a shoulder fired rocket launcher the rocket's exhaust is not contained within the weapon. If you do not believe that the weight of the projectile is involved, shoot something like a 45=70 with a heavy bullet and compare it to a rifle of the same weight with a lighter bullet, the same weight of ejecta and velocity. Bottom line, your example and theory are incorrect. Certainly muzzle brakes work but comparing the recoil of the same rifle with extremes of bullet wight will also demonstrate my point.