Feddersen barrel?

[Luisyamaha]

I've been having less than stellar performance out of my Clark Custom Ruger 10-22. Never quite ever go the 1/2" groups advertised (and in the test target supplied with the rifle) but I always attributed that to a lack of testing with enough expensive ammunition. In Puerto Rico I shot whatever was available. But I still used to get .675" or so groups. Slightly better with Wolf Match ammo.

Since I moved to Virginia I've been able to try various ELEY offerings with dismal results. I tried Benchrest Precision, Match and TenEx. Going from bad to worse. Cheap Federal Auto Match and Aguila shooting as well or better than any of the ELEY (in the .700" to .950" range.)

Long story short, I've been considering a Fedderer barrel. The Clark Custom has a Lothar Walther barrel which is by now 21 years old. Less than 10,000 rounds through it, I clean it and don't see or feel anything wrong.

Am I making any sense? Anything else I could try before buying a new barrel? Remove the barrel from the receiver and clean the bejeesus out of it? Operator error? I'm 72 by now.

There's a lot more to the story, but the question remains: Will I get a better barrel than what I have now?

Luisyamaha

 

[Ranger188]

Now when you say 1/2 inch groups, is this at 50 yds. or 100?
3 shots or 5?

 

[jpx2rk]

I've got 2 Feddersen barrels, 16.5" IIRC, heavy bull, and both shoot very well with the various types of ammo I've shot thru them. No complaints at all. BUT, if you are looking or expecting the small groups on a consistent basis, you will still need to do the ammo safari to find the best ammo for your setup. I would buy another Feddersen if the need arose.

 

[Luisyamaha]

50 yards, average of 4, 5-shot groups. Inmovable bench, Harris bipod and rear bag.

Luiisyamaha

 

[Intell]

If I were going to rebarrel 10/22 I’d contact Joe Chancon at J&L in Texas.
He worked 10/22s into a new level, they also own ABRA ,“Automatic benchrest association”.
If I remember correctly he turns Shilen blanks for his builds. They will be higher priced than a budget barrel, but they generally shoot much better. The barrel is the cheap part compared to good shells.
Good luck with your new project.

 

[SteveOak]

Take a look at Kidd barrels.

 

[doclu60]

Since you have not explained how you clean the current barrel, it's possible that your barrel may be better than you think. If you are cleaning from the muzzle with a rod and no properly fitted muzzle bore guide, you may have some crown damage. This can be seen under magnification, like a loupe or magnifying glass. A bore scope will also show it. Re-crown is much cheaper than a re-barrel.

If your 10/22 has a cleaning hole in the back of the receiver, remove the barreled action from the stock and clean the heck out of the barrel with a rod to include solvent patches and a bronze brush. If you have been using a Bore Snake, or other pull through cleaning methods with the action in the stock, I seriously doubt your barrel is in an optimal clean condition for accuracy. I have been down this road several times with two different RFC 10/22 HOF rifles. One I had built and still own, the other belonging to an acquaintance of mine.

Both of our rifles (benchrest type) were very accurate, and both fell on their faces after a certain time. Both of us used pull through cleaning of the bore way more often than pulling the rifle apart and cleaning it the proper way. My rifle came back after extensive bore cleaning the proper way and was shooting as it did when new. The other guy did send an email to me about my barrel cleaning regimen and did report back that he got slivers of lead out of the bore after taking it out of the stock and breach cleaning it with a rod, but never gave me the courtesy of how well the rifle shot after cleaning.

There's a bunch of 10/22's out here, both clones and OEM, that would shoot better if the bore was cleaned properly. One of the reasons I moved away from the platform was because of the bore maintenance hassle. More folks slack on proper cleaning, even if the receiver has a rear cleaning rod hole, because they have to remove the action from the stock. JME

Scott

 

[Outrider27]

You mentioned testing expensive ammunition. Some 10/22s are temperamental little beasts and all seem to show ammo preferences, so don't limit your testing to expensive ammo - find what it likes regardless of cost - Some love lower priced ammo.

 

[Precisionhunter417]

2 years on my Fedderson barrel and i couldn't be happier. Go bull.

 

[JSH]

I know what my KIDD likes and doesn’t like. As mentioned they are damn picky.
Another reason PCP quality air rifles put a big grin on my face, with a LOT less grief with ammo.

 

[Luisyamaha]

doclu60: most of the cleaning has been with a pull-through weedwacker nylon line. More recently I've used a cleaning rod with a fitted muzzle bore guide. But I use the rod very sparingly, maybe 4-5 times per cleaning. In any case I looked at the muzzle crown with a magnifying glass and can't see anything wrong. I looked at other crowns, both rimfire and centerfire, to refresh my memory of what they are supposed to look like, and everything seems fine.

As my receiver does not have a rear hole in it to insert the rod from the breech, would it be OK to just remove the barrel from the receiver for cleaning? Or would I just be introducing more variables upon re-assembly. I hate messing with a going machine, but then again, it isn't going that well...
With the barrel off, I could really clean from the breech with good access. Other than patches with Butch'sBoreShine, I occasionally use the blue, very stiff nylon brush. The barrel has never had a bronze brush through it.
I've never removed the barrel, but unless there's a deep, dark secret about it, I'm sure I can manage that.

Thanks for your insight.

Luisyamaha

P.S> I HAVE tried cheap ammo. Federal Auto-Match, Aguila, Blazer, Federal Match, and others that were so-so, ho-hum, Federal Auto-Match and Aguila being the best of the bunch, between .700" and .950".

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

My 10-22 with, a SS, 20 inch, Green Mountain Barrel ( Carefully Polished, chamber and, "Broke In", barrel ) LOVES,.. Mid Priced, Ammo like, Wolf Match Extra, S-K Standard Plus, SK Pistol Match and Fed Auto-Match with, it's Yucky, Soft Lead ( But IT, "Shoots", Okay ! ) I can get Lucky with, cheap, Win 38 gr. H-P's for, Sage Rats. Sometimes I get, a "Flyer" but managed to blast, a S Rat at, 85 yards ( Rifle Rested over, a Big Rock ) with,.. the Winchester H-P's, some Lots of, these, ARE, pretty "Good" as, are, CCI Mini Mags for, Hunting use. Every Barrel, is Different, U gotta, TEST
SK and Wolf, ammo get's Me into, the 3's and 4's at,. 50 Yards

 

[Rsadams]

The problem your seeing is ammo related as much as any thing in my opinion.... You have to find the right ammo for that gun and it's not easy.... I shoot an Ruger precision rimfire for 200 300 yard fun but I also have a 10/22 that was my father's that is one of the older ones and it shoots outstanding... I finally shot some eley outlaw benchrest out of it and it shot a five shot group at 100 that measured 6/10ths... Absolutely amazing... If you wish to try it be sure and get the non precision outlaw benchrest ammo because the chamber of a factory 10/22 isn't the bentz...

You can waste a lot of money on rimfire ammo that you barrel really can't use... Also remember even if you find a kind of ammo that shoots outstanding you can simply change lots and it will all go to hell again... I fell down the rimfire rabbit hole at the beginning of this year and have had a lot of fun ringing 3 or 4 Inch steel at 300 but I have also learned A LOT about rimfire ammo , wind etc over the last 7 months... I am one of those guys who goes all in on something I want to do till I get the results I want and then to be honest it's on to something else which is exactly what took me to long distance rimfire... Ohhh it will make you pull your hair out before it's over I promise you...

I like and am known for shooting with the big guys at my club but I use an out of the box rifle because then I get to tune on that rifle and really learn what's going on with it... An out of the box Ruger precision rimfire is a challenge to say the least but it certainly can be done...So can an out of the box 10/22.... But you can normally get them or anything to shoot without throwing away 90% of the rifle and installing all aftermarket parts.... If buying your way into precision is a person's thing then there's absolutely some fine already built rifles out there that shoot fantastic for about ten to times the price of a factory rifle... There's really no comparison between the two and if you want to compete at a high level just stop right now and either build a fully tricked out rifle from the ground up or order one that's already done , that's exactly what everyone else will be doing....You will also be shooting $30 a box ammo probably lapua rimfire after a bunch of testing to find that magic lot number then be ready to buy a few cases....

That stuff is exactly what I don't consider fun at all I do not want to travel all across America I just want to shoot at my club and normally with a friend and have a fun day of shooting in some competitions... I have more fun tuning and trying new things to try and squeeze out that last little bit of accuracy out of an out of the box gun.... Don't get me wrong you can definitely get one that your best bet is to order some nice aftermarket parts because it was just built on a Monday.... The barrel on my Ruger precision rimfire is a absolute disgrace when running a bore scope down it... Maybe one day I'll throw a proof research on it but for now it's doing what I want as good or even better than my competitors guns...

That brings me to this point.... Instead of spending $35 a box on ammo and a thousand on a barrel get outside and put a couple a thousand rounds down it and really learn what's going on... My average box of ammo is about $7-8 a box not $30 which gets me all the trigger time I want which allows my to outshoot tons of people with better equipment than I have... First time I shot in a competition I thought wow these guys are serious they had really nice stuff.... I beat them in the pistol competition using an out of the box Glock 44 with factory iron sights... Never shot in a rimfire match in my life I shot second with the rifle and didn't understand the scoring system or I would have easily won that.... It wasn't a week or two later I was told my equipment of all things was to good ROFL and I would have to shoot further to make it fair.... The guy who told me that his rifle is completely custom... Literally WTF I was laughing my a$$ off and said next time you shoot my rifle and I'll shoot your custom , he didn't want any of that for any amount of money.... That was the end of my competition days , now I just shoot with friends who can actually shoot and have a lot more fun... Unless you're ready for crap like that and have the ability to spend tons of cash just enjoy it....

PS.... I clean my barrels but I normally shoot at least 4-6 boxes when I go to the range playing around.... I highly suggest a teslong bore scope... When my barrel gets really nasty I will even hit it a few strokes with JB bore paste and clean it down to bare metal again and the refill the barrel before shooting for accuracy... I have seen no detrimental effects on accuracy or inside the barrel and the bore scope don't lie.... But to each his own , if I had a really nice barrel I would of course change my cleaning routine to what it wanted , once again that bore scope comes in real handy.... Watch out for carbon rings in rimfire barrels... Once again the bore scope comes in real handy for that also...

 

[Rsadams]

doclu60: most of the cleaning has been with a pull-through weedwacker nylon line. More recently I've used a cleaning rod with a fitted muzzle bore guide. But I use the rod very sparingly, maybe 4-5 times per cleaning. In any case I looked at the muzzle crown with a magnifying glass and can't see anything wrong. I looked at other crowns, both rimfire and centerfire, to refresh my memory of what they are supposed to look like, and everything seems fine.

As my receiver does not have a rear hole in it to insert the rod from the breech, would it be OK to just remove the barrel from the receiver for cleaning? Or would I just be introducing more variables upon re-assembly. I hate messing with a going machine, but then again, it isn't going that well...
With the barrel off, I could really clean from the breech with good access. Other than patches with Butch'sBoreShine, I occasionally use the blue, very stiff nylon brush. The barrel has never had a bronze brush through it.
I've never removed the barrel, but unless there's a deep, dark secret about it, I'm sure I can manage that.

Thanks for your insight.

Luisyamaha

P.S> I HAVE tried cheap ammo. Federal Auto-Match, Aguila, Blazer, Federal Match, and others that were so-so, ho-hum, Federal Auto-Match and Aguila being the best of the bunch, between .700" and .950".

Order a possum hollow bore guide , just call him he's a really nice guy...

 

[doclu60]

doclu60: most of the cleaning has been with a pull-through weedwacker nylon line. More recently I've used a cleaning rod with a fitted muzzle bore guide. But I use the rod very sparingly, maybe 4-5 times per cleaning. In any case I looked at the muzzle crown with a magnifying glass and can't see anything wrong. I looked at other crowns, both rimfire and centerfire, to refresh my memory of what they are supposed to look like, and everything seems fine.

As my receiver does not have a rear hole in it to insert the rod from the breech, would it be OK to just remove the barrel from the receiver for cleaning? Or would I just be introducing more variables upon re-assembly. I hate messing with a going machine, but then again, it isn't going that well...
With the barrel off, I could really clean from the breech with good access. Other than patches with Butch'sBoreShine, I occasionally use the blue, very stiff nylon brush. The barrel has never had a bronze brush through it.
I've never removed the barrel, but unless there's a deep, dark secret about it, I'm sure I can manage that.

Thanks for your insight.

Luisyamaha

Okay, there is a simple solution, if they still have the 'communal' cleaning rod tool over on RFC. It's a jig for the back of an OEM receiver to drill a hole in it to use a cleaning rod for what most folks would consider the 'proper' way to use a rod. You could sign up on a list and when it was your turn, the last user mailed the jig to you to use, then you mailed it to the next guy. So, for the price of postage, you get free use of the tool and make your receiver more friendly to bore cleaning. Removing the barrel is just another added step in an already PIA rifle to clean. Depending on how tight the tenon/tenon hole fit is, it can be a frustrating job. Also, what is supporting your cleaning rod when cleaning from the breech with the barrel out of the action? While I have seen muzzle rod guides for 10/22's, I have never seen a breech bore guide for an unmounted barrel. Even if the loaner jig is no longer available on RFC, the cost of one was about $50, or you could post a WTB ad asking if someone will loan you one.

Since you stated the rifle got progressively worst, I disagree strongly with those that believe it's ammo. Drop the Butches Bore Shine, great solvent and I use it myself........but in CF barrels, not RF barrels. Get your hole drilled, get some Bore Tech C4 and a reputable RF solvent. Get bronze brushes. Soak the leade and chamber area several times with a patch of C4. Normally that will allow patching out most of the carbon, but on a barrel that has been cleaned as you describe, you are going to have to brush as well. Like I said in my first post, I have been down this road several times with 2 different 10/22's that were cleaned mostly with pull through cleaning and several rifles of friends that while they were bolt guns, they were never cleaned enough, or possibly incorrectly.

From your original post and post #11, there is no question in my mind that cleaning the crap out of your barrel will show a huge improvement in accuracy and is the first thing to try. It is also far more economical that a re-barrel or spending more money on ammo testing when the rifle has exhibited a slow decline over a period of time.

Best of luck.......Scott

 

[Steven B]

In a direct comparison on my 20 inch Clark heavy barrel to my 16.5 inch Fedderson, I was amazed at the difference.

The Clark has done me well for a number of years. I recently decided to try a Fedderson after reading reviews. Testing at 50 yards my groups are better.

I've since built a 10/22 for my friend and installed the Clark barrel on it. I'm keeping the Feddersen.

Steven

 

[Luisyamaha]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll remove the barrel, fabricate some sort of guide to keep the rod centered, and clean the crap out of it from the breech and see what happens. At best it will get better, hopefully as good as before. If it works I'll plan on doing this once a year(?). Cleaning with the pull-through in the meantime. After all, it took 20+ years to deteriorate.
At worst, I'll order the Feddersen.

Again, thanks for everybody's opinions.

Luisyamaha

 

[PWNolan]

Okay, there is a simple solution, if they still have the 'communal' cleaning rod tool over on RFC. It's a jig for the back of an OEM receiver to drill a hole in it to use a cleaning rod for what most folks would consider the 'proper' way to use a rod. You could sign up on a list and when it was your turn, the last user mailed the jig to you to use, then you mailed it to the next guy. So, for the price of postage, you get free use of the tool and make your receiver more friendly to bore cleaning. Removing the barrel is just another added step in an already PIA rifle to clean. Depending on how tight the tenon/tenon hole fit is, it can be a frustrating job. Also, what is supporting your cleaning rod when cleaning from the breech with the barrel out of the action? While I have seen muzzle rod guides for 10/22's, I have never seen a breech bore guide for an unmounted barrel. Even if the loaner jig is no longer available on RFC, the cost of one was about $50, or you could post a WTB ad asking if someone will loan you one.

Unfortunately, John stopped sending out the loaner jigs several years ago after a few people took advantage of his generosity and it became too much of a hassle. IIRC one guy had the stones to hang on to one jig for months and even threatened John for wanting his jig back

 

[doclu60]

Unfortunately, John stopped sending out the loaner jigs several years ago after a few people took advantage of his generosity and it became too much of a hassle. IIRC one guy had the stones to hang on to one jig for months and even threatened John for wanting his jig back

Well that's a shame Pat. I never used the jig, as all my receivers were aftermarket with the hole already there, but I thought it was a cool gesture for the guy to loan the tools on a 'trust' basis.

Scott

 

[Luisyamaha]

Latest on the Clark/Ruger 10-22.

Protocol: fire 10 5-shot groups with each ammo. Discard the first 5-shot group and average the remaining 9 5-shot groups. Choose the best 4 groups of those 9 and average those.
ELEY Benchrest Precision. 9 group average: = .60" Best 4 of 9: = 52".
Federal Auto-Match. 9 group average: = .77". Best 4 of 9: = .59"
Eley $15.00/50 at my LGS. .30 cents/round.
Federal Auto-Match $23.00/325 at Wal-Mart. .07 cents/round.

I cleaned the heck out of it. Will hold off on the Federssen for now. At least until I've done my second cataract surgery.

Luisyamaha