Failures to extract

[kds857]

I'm looking for ideas on what may be wrong with my Howa 1500 in 223 Rem.

Shooting only factory ammo (Fiocchi 55gr FMJ and Fed Am Eagle 50gr Varmint Tipped) about 1 of 5 will fail to extract after firing. Roughly 4 of 5 will extract very positively and hurl the brass 3 feet, but roughly 10 or 20 percent will stay in the chamber no matter how slow or fact or slight or hard I run the bolt to try to get the extractor to catch the case rim. For those I have to tap out with a rod.

Has anyone with older Howas (I bought around 2006? or so) experience this or heard of any chamber depth or bolt truing or extractor claw issues?

The extractor tension seems fine, and there are no chips in the extractor and there is no crud underneath the claw that I can see. I tried to take off the extractor but the pin won't budge even when I smack with a punch and hammer.

Is there a way to measure chambering problems without a go gauge or something like that?

Thanks-

Extractor pic: https://imgur.com/a/hMwKNwc
Failure to extract (first spent cartridge extracts, second one from same box doesn't - enable sound in bottom right corner): https://imgur.com/a/g2NkVUQ

 

[Ned Ludd]

Pull out your bolt and try to eyeball the gap between the bottom edge of the extractor claw and the bolt face. The thickness of the rim of the brass from base to extractor groove has to fit into this gap. Because brass thickness can vary by brand, if the gap between the bolt face and extractor claw is on the narrow end, some brands may work and others not. Having a smith widen the gap slightly (or doing it yourself) is readily achievable. If this is the actual issue you are having and you decide to send it to a smith, make sure to include 2 or 3 pieces of the brand(s) of brass it currently does not want to extract.

 

[Zero333]

If you're worried about headspace...
You can tape 1 layer of masking tape on the base/head of the brass ( cut neatly around the circumference of the rim ).
Then try to chamber it.
If the Headspace is good and tight, you should not be able to close the bolt handle all the way down.
If it does chamber no problem, add another layer of masking tape and try again.
If you can close the bolt all the way with out resistance with 2 layers of masking tape on the head of the case, then the headspace is way too long.

 

[argh]

Howas from a certain vintage in the 223 bolt size were renown for this problem. Generally happened with slightly hotter loads (not over pressure through). Use your "Google Fu" and search the problem up. Not sure if there ever was a resolution or a fix - you will have to search for the answers.

 

[kds857]

Thanks guys I tried putting two layers of painters tape on the head of the brass (approx .01 inches thick) and the cartridge chambered. is there a certain thickness of tape I should try before concluding the headspace is off from the factory?

Regarding the extractor is the pin supposed to just come out with a punch and hammer? I pounded quite hard and the extractor pin would not budge...

 

[KMart]

I tried putting two layers of painters tape on the head of the brass (approx .01 inches thick) and the cartridge chambered.

On the surface of this statement above, this doesn't look good. You increased the length, with tape, of a fired piece of brass by .010" and it still chambered. This sounds like a very deep chamber. A No Go gauge is only about .005-.006" longer than a Go gauge.
Judging from what you have written down and shown on the video, my opinion is that the chamber is VERY deep. In the case where the case does not eject, the case is staying in front of the extractor and is not getting pushed behind it.
If you don't have the proper gauges and/or have a friend that does and knows what they are telling you, you need to get his rifle to a gunsmith to figure out the problem and the fix.

 

[Ned Ludd]

FWIW - I had a very similar issue with a new custom bolt rifle about 3 years ago. It was chambered with my reamer and had no chambering issue whatsoever. However, I could see by eye that there was very little gap between the bottom of the extractor claw and the bolt face. After calling the smith, he confirmed that they had tested extraction using a brand of brass I know to be much thinner than the Lapua brass I was using. I returned the bolt and 2 or 3 pieces of the Lapua brass I was using, the smith ground a bit more off bottom of the extractor claw, and it's worked perfectly ever since. I have no way of knowing for sure that you have the same problem I did, but IF it is, the "fix" is relatively simple. As I stated earlier, eyeball the clearance between the extractor claw and the bolt face, and the thickness of the case rims that won't extract. If you have the same issue I had, it should be obvious to the naked eye.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Nothing wrong with the bolt- get the chamber polished right by a gunsmith

 

[PatMiles]

Regarding the extractor is the pin supposed to just come out with a punch and hammer? I pounded quite hard and the extractor pin would not budge...

Per chance is the pin holding the extractor a tapered pin? Goes in one way only and out one way only. Eyeball the head diameter on both ends of the pin. Use a punch on the small diameter side if it is a tapered pin.

 

[SBS]

Extractor and ejector pins are often splined or have a flat on one end to secure them. Usually go in from the hole nearest the bottom of the bolt (when closed). Also be sure to have the bolt on a surface which has very little if any spring or give to it, so some of the force is not used up by a springy support.

 

[K22]

Nothing wrong with the bolt- get the chamber polished right by a gunsmith

I had the same problem with a Weatherby Vanguard which I believe has a Howa Action. But in my situation the fired case would stick in the chamber and I could not without great effort. This would only occur about 10% of the time and only on a fired case.

Loads were not hot or near max. Head space was checked - all was fine there. Smith polished chamber and it solved the problem.

 

[kds857]

thank you guys, I'll polish the chamber. Still puzzles me why some rounds stick and some rounds extract and eject extremely smoothly from the same box of factory ammo, but i'm sure a light polishing will not hurt!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

thank you guys, I'll polish the chamber. Still puzzles me why some rounds stick and some rounds extract and eject extremely smoothly from the same box of factory ammo, but i'm sure a light polishing will not hurt!

Its not at all about polishing (that would actually make it worse) its about the gunsmith’s skill and voodoo of chamber finish. Think of an engine cylinder and its crosshatch pattern.