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f/tr

i am wanting to get started in f-class competition shooting and i have decieded to go f/tr instead of open because the cost to be competitive is alot cheaper in the f/tr. i am looking to see if there are any factory rifles capable of being competitive such as the Savage 12 F/tr, FN patrolman, or rem700 patrol or any else? i dont want to do a custom build yet. any tips on this would be greatly appreciated thanks.
 
you might want to try a 5R milspec.they get .5" groups with factory match ammo out to 100yrds.should be able to get one for around 1000.00.you can even read up on them here on the net.just key in 5R milspec.Scott Powers or at least I think that is his name wrote a good report about them in 2005.and its on the net.I have one and with a good load it gives me .225" groups at 100yrds.nd most days when I do my part I'll get 2" groups at 500yrds.so here is JMO. John
 
You don't say what range you might shoot F/TR over. If you want to enter long-range matches, I'd strongly recommend the Savage 12 F/TR with its 30" barrel. You need high MVs for 1,000yd - 3,000 fps and up with 155s or equivalent levels with heavier bullets at these ranges.

I used an FN SPR in my first season of F/TR - good rifle, shoots quarter inch 100yd groups but couldn't hack it beyond 800 yards.

Tactical rifles or 26" barrel Remy 700 PSS or similar are suitable for shoots up to 600 yards.

Laurie,
York, England
 
Laurie,

I have to bow to your experience, but I feel that you are being a little unfair to suggest a 26" Heavy Barrelled .308 Remi can only cut it to 600 yds - I know many who swear their .223 easily do 600yds.

I personally had some success with a borrowed TRG 22 (26") at the Police Games (Bisley) last year coming first. Although I accept you could have a Custom Rifle for the current cost of a TRG.

I would suggest when starting out, to spend more on a Optic than the rifle and to carry the optics over when you know you can out shoot your rifle.

I also wonder if the altitude the shooter is going to be regularly shooting at be a factor? Bisley is roughly 200 Ft above see level but I understand some of the US shooters shoot at 3-4000 Ft which as I understand it would give the .308 more legs at distance.
 
I feel that you are being a little unfair to suggest a 26" Heavy Barrelled .308 Remi can only cut it to 600 yds - I know many who swear their .223 easily do 600yds.

I personally had some success with a borrowed TRG 22 (26") at the Police Games (Bisley) last year coming first. Although I accept you could have a Custom Rifle for the current cost of a TRG.

I would suggest when starting out, to spend more on a Optic than the rifle and to carry the optics over when you know you can out shoot your rifle.

I also wonder if the altitude the shooter is going to be regularly shooting at be a factor? Bisley is roughly 200 Ft above see level but I understand some of the US shooters shoot at 3-4000 Ft which as I understand it would give the .308 more legs at distance.


Phinpad,

I've probably not expressed myself clearly enough - I'm not saying you can't use a 24-26" barrelled rifle in long-range F, but reckon 26" is the absolute minimum that makes sense for 900 and 1,000yd. Sure, you'll reach the target OK, but the problem is keeping every bullet supersonic and avoiding the inexplicable fliers you get when some bullets are subsonic or destabilised at just above the speed of sound.

There is another factor too - how much you can load the .308W up in some factory actions. My FN was a wonderfully accurate rifle, but only up to certain MVs which were well below what I wanted and needed - for instance just over 2,600 fps with 175 Sierrras. I could get another 150 fps out of these bullets, but 0.3-0.5" groups became 1-1.5". According to Sierra Infinity, there'd be no problem with 2,625 fps MV at the other end with just over 1,200 fps remaining velocity, but it didn't seem to work out that way in practice, especially at Blair Athol. Now, using Bryan Litz's G7 data based on his long-range bullet tests, his ballistics program knocks 100 + fps off the 1,000yd figure, and although still supersonic, you don't need much of a headwind or similar to lose another 50-70 fps and you're in trouble.

The other thing too that no ballistics program can cope with is transonic zone turbulence that starts around 1.3 mach and which can slow / affect the bullet more than the program predicts based on the BC.

One thing I learned in 2008 is that velocity is king in F/TR at these ranges. It's little consolation to match or even beat the eventual class winner in an 800yd stage but then run 15 or 20 points behind at 1,000. This year I'm kicking 155 Scenars out at 3,075 fps and the difference is staggering! The other ballistics factor is, as always, wind deflection. Using Litz's data and program again, my 2009 load moves 21" less at 1,000yd in the classic 10 mph wind at 3 o'clock. Now I know that 10 mph winds don't usually suddenly appear and disappear, but let's say gusts have half that effect ie 1-MOA, and one half-reads the change, so you're a half-MOA adrift - that's an extra point gone over the faster load!

That's why I'd recommend the Savage F/TR rifle to anyone looking to get into the discipline. They're very accurate indeed - subject to the usual caveats about mass produced rifles and the way the tolerances fall - they have a good stiff single-shot action with a small diameter firing pin so take heavy loads, and combine that with the 30" barrel and you'll easily get accuracy + 3,000 fps with a 155. With a 1-10" twist, you can experiment with 210gn VLDs too if that appeals.

Incidentally, your mention of .223 Rem. I've long reckoned that there's a great deal to be said for 223 at 600 with optimised 80gn loads, and looking at Jerry Tierney's work with the cartridge in a Palma rifle with 80s at 3,100 fps, but more importantly the 90gn Berger VLD at over 2,800 fps at Sacramento earlier this year, it starts to be very competitive with 308 at 1,000. I'm so convinced that I'm having a .223 Savage action rifle built. Whether I'll get it for next April is a moot point as nobody can get any barrels out of the USA because of State Department export licensing delays, and Bartlein has a very full order book on top too. If it doesn't work out in national league matches, I'm sure it'll make an excellent tool for club matches up to 800yd, with a quarter of the 308's recoil and a fair saving on ammo component costs.

Regards,

Laurie
 
The Savage F/TR did very well at the 2009 Ontario Fullbore Champs, taking individual events and Aggs from 300 to 1000 yards. The rifle has definitely increased participation in the Ontario Rifle Association programme.

I shoot a 6AI in F(O) but am experimenting with a Ruger Target Rifle in .308 as an F/TR, F(R) rifle. The rifle is finicky in load preference but 155 moly AMax at 2850 fps seated to just touch the lands is starting to shoot sub-moa at 300 metres off a bench. The two-stage trigger was actually too light out of the box. Had to heavy it up a bit to discern the transition between stages but like it now.
 
Another vote for the Savage. I am a High Master in F Class and shoot Savages as well as Remingtons. But the factory Savage is THE way to get into the game for a beginner.

Get the Savage in 308 and enjoy learning the sport. After 3500-5000 rounds you will be able to change barrels in a snap and then off you go again.
 
rware91, I would stick with the .308 as your first F Class rifle. I had a .223 8 twist 30 inch MacLennon barrel put on a 722 action in a Fajen prone stock and had big aspirations for F Class. After three years of practise and competiton I have pretty well relegated the .223 to 300 metre ISU shoots.

The reamer used to cut a .223 chamber is critical. Most reamers produce a chamber for a cartridge designed to fit the AR15 magazine. Mine was cut with a Wylde reamer and the 80 gr bullets have to be seated too deep.

On paper the .22 caliber 80 gr bullet is on a par with the 155 .308 bullet but practical experience past 600 yards on a windy day has repeatedly shown that results with the 155 are more consistent.
 
Thanks guys for all the help. i really appreciate all of the infomation. i never considered the .223, but i think i have made up my mind on the savage F T/R .308
 
The Savage F-T/R did quite well at the World Championships in Bisley this year. Two of the four shooters on the US F-T/R Team shot stock Savage Rifles & won the Gold. I came back with 5 Gold medals with mine.

John
Team Savage
Team USA F-T/R

Look at censhot.com for new light weight bi-pod.
 

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