F-TR rule question

[bsoutlaw32]

Before a person questions another shooters setup, he should check his own legal width of the board under his bipod and the way he Preloads his own bipod!

Brian Suhr

 

[boltman223]

Before a person questions another shooters setup, he should check his own legal width of the board under his bipod and the way he Preloads his own bipod!

Brian Suhr

Good point Mr. Brian suhr. I will admit that handsome devil with the receding hairline using the Harris bipod is myself. That picture is from two years ago, maybe the beginning of last summer (2014). 2014 was my second year I didnt completely know the rules at that time. I have now taken the time to read and understand them to the best of my ability . I no longer use a Harris bipod (haven't used it since summer 2014, not saying the Harris is illegal) or straps to preload nor do I use a board under my bipod.

I do use a piece of carpet with a piece of rubber attached under it. With It not being a board I interpret it as legal according to section 22 3.4.1 part (5). Of the NRA high power rule book.There is no deminsions stated. I have read the rules and If my interpretation is wrong I will gladly except some carificarion and change my piece of carpet. Below I have copied and pasted the rule I have mentioned.

(5)Any number or type of objects may be placed beneath the bipod or rear support, to compensate for
variations in height or slope of the firing point.


Brian, im sorry if i have offended you. I only posted my question for clarification, like I said above. I was not sure and I thought this would be a place to get that.

 

[ScottyB]

It may not have spiked feet to settle in the ground.

You sure? International rules (ICFRA) specifically allow this (up to 2" spikes).

 

[Marksman63]

F2.5. The F/TR rifle may be supported by an attached bipod which may not provide a positive mechanical method for returning the rifle to its point of aim for the previous shot. Each “foot” may terminate in a single spike, which may be pressed into the ground by up to 50mm (about 2”) provided this causes no significant permanent harm or indentation to the firing point. A “ski” facilitating free recoil is also permitted. The rifle or bipod may incorporate an integral mechanism for raising and lowering the fore-end. A sling may be additionally used in conjunction with a bipod.

F2.9. The use of ‘tables’ i.e. a single flat solid surface extending under both front rest and rear bag is prohibited. Carpet or similarly flexible matting may be placed under the front rest and rear bag. Separate flat boards and or plates not exceeding the dimensions of the individual
rests by two inches on a given side may also be placed under the front rest and rear bag. In the case of a bipod the board or plate may be as wide as necessary to accommodate the bipod at its widest point, but not be more than 12" front to rear. It is not permitted to provide tracks
for the guidance of bipod feet. No levelling screws or protrusions are allowed on these boards or plates. They must be flat on the top and bottom.

 

[boltman223]

F2.5. The F/TR rifle may be supported by an attached bipod which may not provide a positive mechanical method for returning the rifle to its point of aim for the previous shot. Each “foot” may terminate in a single spike, which may be pressed into the ground by up to 50mm (about 2”) provided this causes no significant permanent harm or indentation to the firing point. A “ski” facilitating free recoil is also permitted. The rifle or bipod may incorporate an integral mechanism for raising and lowering the fore-end. A sling may be additionally used in conjunction with a bipod.

F2.9. The use of ‘tables’ i.e. a single flat solid surface extending under both front rest and rear bag is prohibited. Carpet or similarly flexible matting may be placed under the front rest and rear bag. Separate flat boards and or plates not exceeding the dimensions of the individual
rests by two inches on a given side may also be placed under the front rest and rear bag. In the case of a bipod the board or plate may be as wide as necessary to accommodate the bipod at its widest point, but not be more than 12" front to rear. It is not permitted to provide tracks
for the guidance of bipod feet. No levelling screws or protrusions are allowed on these boards or plates. They must be flat on the top and bottom.

Marksman83- just wondering which version of the rule book you got the info above from? The book I downloaded says revised January 2014 and reads different than what you posted. I'm looking in section 22, is there another section?
Or is there a new version I'm unaware of?

On edit- I'm assuming what you posted is the international rules?

 

[Marksman63]

Here is
http://www.icfra.co.uk/FC_Rules_2014%20Final.pdf

 

[coldboreshot]

The rule being posted in this chat regarding spiked feet or points no more than 2" in the ground refer to the rules section on "Rests". This refers two the 3 points under a rest primarily used for Fopen. Re-read the section refering to FTR which states, the bipod cannot employ any devices which allow mechanical return to point of aim. As for International Rules, I believe the NRA follows THEIR High Power Rules and do not employ International rules. I can't speak for all the venues across the country where Fclass is participated in, but the numerous venues I have competed in both FOpen and TR, No spiked feet of any kind can be applied to bipods which aid in a mechanical return to point of aim.

 

[Marksman63]

Now it's clear there are different rules on bipod use for F Class TR between NRA and ICFRA.

Question: 2017 F Class World Championship in Canada. Which rule will be adopted?

 

[memilanuk]

Now it's clear there are different rules on bipod use for F Class TR between NRA and ICFRA.

Question: 2017 F Class World Championship in Canada. Which rule will be adopted?

1. It's in Canada
2. It's an international competition

Why would the USA NRA rules have any bearing on that event?

Plus, any changes to ICFRA Rules have to be put into effect during a fairly narrow window (~18 months, IIRC) after the last event. That window has expired... so the rules are what they are; dont expect any changes btwn now and the next FCWC.

 

[JohnKielly]

ICFRA rules are always used for international competitions, which is what they were designed for.

 

[coldboreshot]

Can't answer that question. That may be above my pay grade. Perhaps if you contact the match director or promoter for that event Im sure they could answer your question. Read both regulations and see where the differentiations occur.

 

[ScottyB]

I can answer that!

We will be following DCRA rules for all events associated with the 2016 & 2017 Canadian F-Class National Championships, and ICFRA rules for all events within the 2017 F-Class World Championships. Hopefully by then we will have amended the Canadian (DCRA) rules to mirror ICFRA's, but in this case they are already the same, 2" spikes are technically permissible but with the big caveat about altering the firing point.

Hope to see you all up at Connaught!

Scott

 

[KarinL]

The international rules will be in place at the 2017 World Championships.

The idea of a 2x4 to preload a bipod would be illegal. First off, because it is staked to the ground with stakes that are not part of the bipod would make it illegal. Secondly, one of the more important things, I personally believe that it is against the spirit of the FTR rules when we get forward and rearward stops, we are becoming F Open shooters. If we want all that stuff we should just join the F Open class. This is my opinion only.


Earl Liebetrau
NRA Official Referee
NRA High Power Committee Member

P.S. I served as a Referee at the 2015 Palma World Championship matches at Camp Perry and worked with the Chairman of ICFRA.

 

[Warren Dean]

Well put, Earl.

Are you coming to Phoenix?

 

[memilanuk]

The idea of a 2x4 to preload a bipod would be illegal. First off, because it is staked to the ground with stakes that are not part of the bipod would make it illegal.

Earl,

Just for the sake of argument (who, me? )... I'm curious as to exactly *which* clause or section of the rules you would cite in making that judgement?

It's not part of, nor attached to, the gun, and as such, wouldn't normally be included in the weight of the gun in the normal sense of if you pick it up off the ground, the 2x4 cleat would easily stay behind. Specifically, I don't see anything in section 22, 3.4(b)1 that applies:

[i]An “attachment” also includes any external object, other than the competitor and apparel, which recoils or partially recoils with the rifle, or which is clamped, held, or joined in any way to the rifle for each shot, or which even slightly raises with the lifting of the rifle from its rest/firing point[/i]

.

The USA NRA rules for F/TR are, as far as I can tell, silent about spikes into the ground. They used to have language similar to what is in the F-Open section, but I believe it was silently removed years ago by the HP committee ???

As far as the bit in 3.4(b):

which provide no positive mechanical method for returning it to its precise point of aim for the prior shot.

You'd better tell Mid Tompkins to take that stop bar off the rear bag plate on his stock... any number of other people that I've seen with similar attachments over the last few years. If you're going to cite that clause this one time, I expect to see it enforced evenly up and down the firing line...

I'm not sure I see anything else specific that applies... care to enlighten me?

For the record, I think it's a rather dumb idea that will fall apart the first time that shooter has to compete somewhere with a concrete or hard pack (or sandy, or gravel) firing line. I also think it probably does fall afoul of 3.18 in the sense of the 'spirit of the rules'... I know my knee-jerk reaction upon seeing it was 'that has to be illegal' but upon closer review, other than the all-purpose wishy-washy 'spirit of the rules' clause... I'm not as sure.

 

[KarinL]

Yes we will be at Phoenix. Hope to see you there.

Earl

 

[KarinL]

Monte,

I will quote the spirit of the rules. My reasoning is fastening a fixture to the firing point is illegal. But fastening a fixture on your rifle in some manner would not be illegal because it would be included as part of the rifles weight. If you want to shoot with all those advantages then just shoot F Open, problem solved.

We will see everyone in Phoenix next week.

Earl

 

[conor m]

as to staking a 2 x4 to the firing point hell its is illegal in my opinion ,,,,, let him go to the worlds and find out !!!! . now as to national governing bodys ,,, thats snother question/ answer .
here is a better question ,,,, what are the tolerances allowable on the width of a f-class stock the rules state 3 imperial inches (76.20 mm) . I have shot in 2 world championships , bisley 2009 ,raton 2013 . during the european championships held in 2014 it was pointed out to me that my stock was very tight in the guage that was being used ,when i returned home i mesured the forend with a micrometer and found that my stock is 10 thousants of a imperian inch over the max . answers please

 

[Lbart]

Conner,
No tolerance in the rules. Max contact patch is 76x76 mm. ICFRA rules limit the width to 76 mm which according to my convert program = 2.992117 American inches. 76.2mm =2.999991” therefore you are 0.007874” over the limit. Get the sand paper out my friend.

For others interested, when having an FO rifle made make sure the stock is under the limit a mite so you can add stock tape if you want. I just made a mod to one of my stocks and had to go back and sand some more to make the limit.

 

[Warren Dean]

I have shot in 2 world championships , bisley 2009 ,raton 2013 . during the european championships held in 2014 it was pointed out to me that my stock was very tight in the guage that was being used ,when i returned home i mesured the forend with a micrometer and found that my stock is 10 thousants of a imperian inch over the max . answers please

That's it, Murphy...you're disqualified.