F-Class with the Triple Deuce (.222 Rem)

[Berger.Fan222]

I don't think anyone would regard the Triple Deuce as an ideal choice for F-Class, even limited to mid range, but I think most of us have had occasions where we invited friends or family along and may have run short of top choices in rifles for outfitting the group. I've also begun to recognize some wisdom in bringing along a spare rifle, just in case someone has a malfunction in their original rifle. Finally, sometimes we just get the urge to try something new.

Like many .222s, the one in our gun safe is a 1 in 14" twist, which limits the bullet weight. Some emails to techs revealed that the 50, 52, and 55 grain AMAX/VMAX family is expected to be stable from a 1 in 14", but the plastic tipped bullets of similar weight from Sierra were iffy. Discussing it with various shooters, the 55 VMAX emerged as the best candidate.

Running the numbers for a max load of 4198 or 4895 suggests the load is comfortably supersonic to 600 yards. I'm not sure I want to bet the outcome of a real F-Class match on this, but we're hoping to make a road trip to Talladega to use their electronic targets for some simulated (practice) mid range matches, so that might be a chance to see how this does. I've also noticed there is a 300 yard F-Class match in Alabama where the F-TR scores are often higher than the F-Open scores. I bet this combo could easily be competitive with the better F-TR scores at 300 yards.

Thoughts? Experiences? Predictions?

 

[DBailey]

Well, you'll certainly get some wind reading experience out of that combination.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Well, you'll certainly get some wind reading experience out of that combination.

Great point. A lot of folks get much more 600 yard experience than 1000 yard experience, so their wind reading skills mature much more slowly. Shooting the Triple Deuce at 600 yards may be a viable approach to approximating the wind drift of higher BC bullets at 1000 yards. It's certainly cheaper than the longer drive to 1000 yard matches for a lot of folks.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

A 52gr custom br bullet is the choice for a deuce in 14tw.

 

[LESLEY]

LOL this wont end good

 

[Berger.Fan222]

A 52gr custom br bullet is the choice for a deuce in 14tw.

The .222 Rem in question has won more than its fair share of short range events with flat based hollow point match bullets weighing 52 grains. But most of these bullets have BCs at or below 0.200, which means they move a lot in the wind and are in the transonic region by 600 yards. If I needed to shoot a bullet with a BC of .200, I think I'd prefer a Hornady 40 grain VMAX launched at 3400+ fps that will remain supersonic to 600 yards and drift less in the wind due to the higher velocity.

In the tradeoff between inherent accuracy and BC, I think BC matters much more at ranges where the bullet is retaining half or less of its initial velocity. A bullet that may only shoot 0.5-0.7 MOA groups at short range has a better chance of holding 1-1.5 MOA at 600 yards if it doesn't slow to below 1100 fps.

I think the scoring potential of the .222 at 600 yards is unlikely to be higher than 190/200 even with the highest BCs available for the twist rate, and that scoring that high would be a reasonable accomplishment.

 

[Laurie]

Out of interest, have you tried the tipped bullets at any distance? On paper, they won't stabilise in a 14-inch twist even at 3,200/3,300 fps MVs. The Miller's Rules formula overestimates the twist rate for such bullets as the plastic tip's length increase doesn't have as great an effect on stability factor as in a HP or FMJ type, and the boat-tail section is vestigial, nearer to flat-base than true boat-tail.

Even so, on-range research work written up by Michael Courteny and what Bryan Litz now says under both his Applied Ballistics and Berger Bullets' hats, say that even when stabilised enough to group reasonably or even well, you lose a goodly chunk of the potential BC at low Sg values. Courteny found that (with the 222 and downloads at 100 using two chronographs at muzzle and target) that SGs below 1.26 suffered a dramatic increase in drag and velocity loss.

I did once shoot a .222 BSA I had at 300 / 500 / 600 on a still, frosty November morning in northern England a lifetime ago. 300 was apparently OK, 500 ragged and 600 hopeless with unstable bullets passing through the targets sideways. I can't remember the loads now, but I'm pretty sure I used both 55gn Nosler Ballistic Tips and 52gn Sierra MatchKings.

 

[BradY]

Do an 8 twist 30 inch barrel on your 222 and shoot 80gr bergers as close to 3000fps as you can safely get. That would be the only way I would consider using it at 600yds. Even then its going to give you a lesson in what wind does to a bullet.

 

[mac86951]

Two points: 1: bullet frangibility vs. Pit/target pulling design... We've had problems locally at 600y, but we need maintenance too. It's worth the question

2: 20-222. Berger .204 55gr. Might do just fine at 600y

-Mac

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Two points: 1: bullet frangibility vs. Pit/target pulling design... We've had problems locally at 600y, but we need maintenance too. It's worth the question

2: 20-222. Berger .204 55gr. Might do just fine at 600y

-Mac

Do an 8 twist 30 inch barrel on your 222 and shoot 80gr bergers as close to 3000fps as you can safely get. That would be the only way I would consider using it at 600yds. Even then its going to give you a lesson in what wind does to a bullet.

I appreciate the insights, but I'm not too interested in $500 answers (new barrels) to a $50 question (which bullet). I'm more interested in enabling a great short range rifle to serve double duty in F-Class. We already have several .223s in the stable, and 80 grain SMKs do very well at 600 yards at 2800 fps. There is no need to push pressures, shorten case life and shorten barrel life by trying to push a smaller cartridge to 3000 fps. I raised the possibility of rebarreling the .222 as another .223, and almost has a mutiny on my hands for the sacriledge of suggesting a change to the winningest rifle in the stable.

This rifle will likely still be used for a dozen events a year at shorter range (as first choice), but probably only twice a year in F-Class. I've seen shooters score reasonably well at 600 yards with 50-55 grain bullets from a .223, so I don't think a .222 is giving up much more by comparison. There are a lot of still days down south.

I'm not worred about frangible bullets. Plastic tipped bullets from a .222 Rem will barely muster 1200 fps at 600 yards. Higher BC plastic tipped bullets from larger calibers reach the target with much higher velocity.

 

[swd]

The 53 grain V Max has about the highest BC for the light bullets at .290. You'll need all the help you can get. I'd try a practice day at 600 and then decide if it's they way you want to go. It'll have about twice the wind drift of a 6BR.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Out of interest, have you tried the tipped bullets at any distance? On paper, they won't stabilise in a 14-inch twist even at 3,200/3,300 fps MVs. The Miller's Rules formula overestimates the twist rate for such bullets as the plastic tip's length increase doesn't have as great an effect on stability factor as in a HP or FMJ type, and the boat-tail section is vestigial, nearer to flat-base than true boat-tail.

Even so, on-range research work written up by Michael Courteny and what Bryan Litz now says under both his Applied Ballistics and Berger Bullets' hats, say that even when stabilised enough to group reasonably or even well, you lose a goodly chunk of the potential BC at low Sg values. Courteny found that (with the 222 and downloads at 100 using two chronographs at muzzle and target) that SGs below 1.26 suffered a dramatic increase in drag and velocity loss.

I did once shoot a .222 BSA I had at 300 / 500 / 600 on a still, frosty November morning in northern England a lifetime ago. 300 was apparently OK, 500 ragged and 600 hopeless with unstable bullets passing through the targets sideways. I can't remember the loads now, but I'm pretty sure I used both 55gn Nosler Ballistic Tips and 52gn Sierra MatchKings.

Good points. The stability calculators are not exactly promising, but the bullet companies use a program called PRODAS which is more sophisticated, and they also do a lot of test firing with their own bullets. Consequently, I tend to trust the recommendations of their techs. Hornady seems to think their plastic tipped bullets (other than the 53 VMAX) will be stable from a 1 in 14" twist. Sierra thinks their 50 and 55 grain Blitzkings need a 1 in 12" twist, which is too bad, since the 55 Blitzking has a higher BC than the 55 VMAX.

We've shot several of the bullets at shorter ranges and nothing tumbled. Accuracy was good, but there is nothing other than Hornady's recommendation to suggest we will not see a dynamic stability problem at longer ranges. Based on your experience and the marginal stability predicted by some of the formulas (and possible drag increase), we may not be able to get the 50-55 grain bullets to 600 yards without a problem in the transonic region, either tumbling or severe loss of accuracy. We've worked a lot with the 40 grain VMAX and ballistic tip. No one is eager to go this low in BC (0.200), but I'm confident we can get it to 600 without transonic or stability problems.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I think you should go see what it does on paper.

 

[snert]

I have watched a 40XBR 222 with a 20 inch barrel walk right down the line shooting 3 inch round plates at 500 yards at teh McDonald PA club. Five plates, five shots, no wind, early morning. FWIW

All kinds of rifles have been used to shoot long distance...but I don't think I would work too hard trying to get consistency at 500-600 with a 222 and light bullets. I AM a 222 fan...

 

[Berger.Fan222]

I think you should go see what it does on paper.

Agreed, although if we make the road trip to Talladega, I might be reporting on performance of the combo on an electronic target rather than paper.

I have watched a 40XBR 222 with a 20 inch barrel walk right down the line shooting 3 inch round plates at 500 yards at teh McDonald PA club. Five plates, five shots, no wind, early morning. FWIW

All kinds of rifles have been used to shoot long distance...but I don't think I would work too hard trying to get consistency at 500-600 with a 222 and light bullets. I AM a 222 fan...

Any recollection of what bullets were used?

I expect the 222 at 600 yards will be more of an exercise in wind reading and skill building than throwing equipment at it, but right now, the stability questions leave some uncertainty regarding bullet choices.

And even if the combo is not viable for 600 yards, given the inherent accuracy of the rifle (and many 222s), it should be a good combo for the 300 yard matches that seem to be popping up a lot lately, as well as a great varmint load, once the range limitations are understood. It seems like giving it a try at 600 is the best way to assess the range limitations.

 

[snert]

The bullets were 50 grain Sierra blitz and the powder was IMR4198, fed match primers. old school groundhog gun. Dead calm, early morning before the twitchy wind and the mirage came up. Printed a 200 yard group to confirm zero, dialed in 500 and popped five plates. turned a couple heads...some other early birds.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

The bullets were 50 grain Sierra blitz and the powder was IMR4198, fed match primers. old school groundhog gun. Dead calm, early morning before the twitchy wind and the mirage came up. Printed a 200 yard group to confirm zero, dialed in 500 and popped five plates. turned a couple heads...some other early birds.

There is something special about 4198 in the Triple Deuce. Those old school varmint rifles can be very special also.

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Over the winter break, I made it to Talladega and tested some .222 Rem loads out to 600 yards in simulated F-Class matches on the electronic targets. Before the trip, I had settled on a 55 grain Hornady VMAX and a max load of H4895 from trials at short range.

The load had no problem remaining supersonic to 600 yards. As expected, this is a great load if the purpose is improving one's wind reading skills. Calculations suggest the wind drift at 600 yards is comparable to most high BC .308 loads at 1000 yards, so it will keep you on your toes if you are used to getting careless at midrange.

I don't think the triple deuce will post many scores in the Master and High Master ranges, but there is definite potential to post Sharpshooter and Expert level scores. I doubt anyone will ever make the triple deuce their favorite rifle for F-Class competition, but it has the potential to provide a last minute friend, family, member, or other beginner, with a rifle that can post decent scores, and it also is a great choice to sharpen wind reading habits at mid-range in preparation for a long range event.

At some point in the future I may try the 50 grain VMAX.

 

[sw282]

The 53 grain V Max has about the highest BC for the light bullets at .290. You'll need all the help you can get. I'd try a practice day at 600 and then decide if it's they way you want to go. It'll have about twice the wind drift of a 6BR.

Hornady Manual says these 53gr VMAX will NOT stabilize in a 1 in 14'' twist barrel. They seem to know their twists. These 53s would NOT stabilize in my Rem 700 22-250 HV or 700 HV 222Rem. Both have 1-14'' twist factory Rem barrels

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Do an 8 twist 30 inch barrel on your 222 and shoot 80gr bergers as close to 3000fps as you can safely get. That would be the only way I would consider using it at 600yds. Even then its going to give you a lesson in what wind does to a bullet.

Well, I do have an 8 twist 222, but I have my doubts that I could find a load that would push an 80g to 3000fps and keep the primer in the back...might have a play with 55's and 69's though for fun. BTW - my "spare" rifle, for friends use is a Savage 10 223 with a 26in 1/9 that shoots well at 600.