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F Class Technique

I am going to shoot F Class and I am having a problem with recoil. I am shooting a 6mmbr, Lapua brass, cci 450 primers, Berger 105 vld, and 31.5 gr of varget. Shoot this load for the second time today with what I thought were good results at 1000 yds. Shot 10 rounds on paper after scope adjustments and put 7 in the X, one in the 9 at 2:00, which I called, another in the 9 at 9:00 which I over adjusted for wind, aim point was 9-ring at 9:00. The 10th round was just way out in the 8-ring with know explanation.
Keep in mind that I am new to long range and have done very little shooting other than with an off the rack hunting rifle in the past. I realize that I still need to work on trigger-pull, cheek-weld and probably most on shoulder placement.
Now, getting to my problem, the gun is coming quite aways off target on recoil to the left. It seems to be twisting rather than jumping. Help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
What kind of front rest do you have?

I use a Caldwell BR Rock with windage top with the factory 3" bag, I keep the clamps as tight as I can within the Rules and never have had the rifle rise or twist, it just goes straight back.

Mike
 
First of all, what sort of forend does your rifle have?
What weight trigger does it have?
Have you tried milder primers for your 6BR?
 
cr500,

I don't know exact trigger weight, but I am told it is very light and it seems very light to me. The forend is flat and is 2.5" wide. I just looked through the forums and started with these components and have only shoot 360 rounds through the rifle. Your suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,

Ken
 
I didnt ask the weight of your rifle, but if it is relativly heavy, you will usualy be better off shooting free recoil with the smaller calibers. This means keeping your shoulder just back from the butt and only use your trigger finger on the trigger. This will usualy only work if your front rest/rear bag set up is good. Are you able to move the gun backwards, then back to the front again and keep the cross hairs close to the target?

One more tip, is to use the palm of your hand to hollow out the center of the front bags before you put the rifle down so that only the outer edges of your stock forend are contacting. Also, pound the rear of the stock down into the rear bags once you put the gun down to make sure the rear bag has settled and isnt going to creep lower (muzzle up) after each shot.
I just saw that you are using the standard Caldwell front bag. A freind of mine hated his after he tried mine. You might want to check out some front bags the other shooters are using.
 
Also, have you tried milder primers with the BR? Usualy a shorter case burning a faster powder like Varget goes better with milder primers, while longer cases with slower burning H4350 prefer the hotter magnum primers, not always, but its worth a try. Also, 31.5gns of Varget seems a bit more than most BR shooters use. How did yours go with a slightly milder load around 30gns or so? More powder/speed doesnt always give better accuracy. Have you tried the lighter load?
 
First thing I would check is your setup, make sure your rear bag is in line with your rest and make sure your front rest is good and level, stable and there is even pressure on the sides. Second thing would be your position behind the rifle, how you hold it, cheek pressure,how it hits your shoulder if your shooting free recoil etc...I'm not sure how much your load would effect it, it may slightly if you are going from one extreme to the next. JMO
 
cr500 said:
I didnt ask the weight of your rifle, but if it is relativly heavy, you will usualy be better off shooting free recoil with the smaller calibers. This means keeping your shoulder just back from the butt and only use your trigger finger on the trigger. This will usualy only work if your front rest/rear bag set up is good.

cr500,

This info on shooting FREE RECOIL is not the best advice as it is against the NRA Rules for High Power which F-Class is a form of, NOT BENCHREST.

The rifle must be fired in the prone position from the shoulder of the competitor using rifle rests as
defined in Rule 3.4.1(a).


slim56,

You should take a look at the NRA High Power Rulebook to make sure you understand the format and know for a fact you are within the Rules with your equipment. The Complete High Power Rule Book has parts that apply not only section 22.

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-index.pdf
 
I would work on body position behind the rifle, consistent butt placement on the shoulder, and consistent cheek weld. Also, hand positioning (both of them) can play a role too.

At practice try seting up the rifle on target. Slide rifle back and forth a few times to see if you are tracking straight in the bags. The rifle should come back or very, very close to point of aim. Then get down straight in line with the rifle. Push the butt into your shoulder firmly a few times. Again the rifle should not move too much off of aim. Without an adjustable butt plate you'll need to find a comfortable spot for the butt in the shoulder that will keep you as close to on target as possible with te least amount of movement on recoil. Fire a few shots and see which way you are going off target. Move your body around until you get a straight back recoil. That's where you want to be.

If your stock is not a 'benchrest' stock, you may have a hard time using the front rest consistently. I know my rifle sucks on a front rest. I use a MWerks wide bipod sliding on a rear car mat. I love this setup and it is very stable for me. Plus I hate lugging around a heavy rest up and down the yardlines.

I use a very firm hold, and it seems to work well for me. It takes a little training in the muscle groups to loose the fatigue, but in the end it has worked out superbly for me. My $.02. ;D
 
cr500,

I haven't tried the ligher primers but I will. The 31.5gr of Varget is on the heavy side but I am not getting any signs of high pressure at all. I was using 27.9 gr of varget after my first ladder test because I was afraid of the higher load that gave me an equally small vertical spread. I did a second ladder test beginning with 27.5gr and increasing by 0.5gr up to 32 gr. the 31.5gr gave me the smallest vertical spread followed by the 28gr. so this time I chose the faster load which was also the smallest vertical spread. I do another test around the 31.5 gr changing the load by 0.3gr increments to get alittle closer to the ideal charge. I anticapate this load is going to chrono at about 2970 at my location.
Ken
 
SpencerC and Heavies,
Talk to me about body position (specifics), cheek weld (pressure), bag hardness (I think my front bag may be to hard), my front rest is a Sinclair Benchrest Style Lightweight Rest #04-3130 with a protector #2, forend on stock is 2.5" wide and flat on bottom.

Thanks,

Ken
 
Ken,
I'm trying to lay as straight as possible behind the rifle. The butt is in an area of my shoulder where I feel is the best place for the straight line recoil I was speaking of earlier. I may have to adjust the position of my body around the rifle, due to varying terrain, to get that natural point of aim to keep me on target. I use firm cheek weld and firm butt placement in the shoulder, using trigger hand to push the rifle into my shoulder, and other hand to squeeze the bag for slight elevation adjustment. My rear bag is pretty hard, with minimal play in it. Sorry, I don't know much about the front, but I have heard too hard can cause problems.
I used to use a 12lb .30-06 with 208 grain Amaxes. Straight line recoil was very important with this gun, if not, ouch.
I now have a 6BR, it is so much more pleasant to shoot all day. But without that input from the heavy recoil, I find myself sometimes becoming complacent.

There are so many techniques out there, but one has to find what is comfortable and works for them. Hope that make sense. ;D
 
Is it realy true that in USA, you are not allowed to shoot free recoil in F Class?

To the experienced 6BR and 6 Dasher shooters out there with heavy F class guns, how do you get away with shooting with "minimal" hold.

If so, how do they catagorize free recoil or semi freerecoil?
 
If you're in a normal prone position, and the rifle recoils into your shoulder, you're firing it from the shoulder.
It does not matter how tight you are holding the rifle.
 
Granted its hard to tell if someone is shooting with light to heavy pressure on the rifle with their shoulder, but if you are set up 4 inches back from the stock, you'll be considred non-compliant with the rules at my home range (for both 600 and 1,000 yard F-Class).

Jeffvn
 
slim56 said:
SpencerC and Heavies,
Talk to me about body position (specifics), cheek weld (pressure), bag hardness (I think my front bag may be to hard), my front rest is a Sinclair Benchrest Style Lightweight Rest #04-3130 with a protector #2, forend on stock is 2.5" wide and flat on bottom.

Thanks,

Ken

Well, first of all let me say I mostly do F T/R with a bipod and rear bag. My BR experience is limited, but I know if your front bag is too hard you will get some "unexplained" vertical flyers. I also like stocks that are concave on the fore-end so it more or less is riding on "rails" instead of 2.5" of stock.

I try to be straight behind the rifle and it tells me when its right when it recoils back perfectly straight. If it goes off to one side, I shift my position and try again. There is no real, set in stone rules for technique, you just have to make sure you do the same thing every time. If after awhile you still don't see any improvement, try a little more or less grip pressure, cheek pressure etc... Only you will know what you are comfortable with.
 
Use a tight hold. Left hand [if you are a righty] holding down the stock.
This may correct any jump or twist.
I have a new F-Class stock & barreled action which I am sighting in and doing load stuff tomorrow. Presently I have been using a Shehane tracker stock which very marginal for F-Class, holding tight on it. Shoots very tight groups at 600yds when I behave. When I am not shooting/holding/pulling cosistently in a rythm the 9s come up. Both rifles are Barnard P action, Bartlein barrel [heavy varmint], Lapua brass, Berger VLDs, 30gr [exact] of Varget and Wolf magnum small rifle primers, bullets seated [jammed] into the lands, Nightforce BR scopes.
The rest I use is a Fulghum [Randolph Machining], heavy and steady [hard bag],
with a bit of silicone spray for recoil slide. Butt up against my shoulder [not too tight].

Dont forget Mirage and Wind, when it is shifty and you do not holdoff correctly
you will get 9s, maybe even a, "kiss of death", 8s.

Just keep trying and stick to a good technique and rythm.
F-Class is fun!!!
 
F- shooting FROM THE SHOULDER!!
wheree does that say the butt MUST BE ON THE SHOULDER?????

if you'll note, the term 'from the shoulder' shows up under the 'rifle' section of the rules - NOT THE POSITION section of the rules.

i have it on good authority [from the man who wrote the rules] that he should never have put 'from the shoulder' in.

the HIGH POWERR cmte is going to have to clarify and if they? want the butt against the shoulder [at the time of firing], they willo have to say so!

what if the butt 'starts' 'against' the shoulder and 'ends' 'against' the shoulder. DOES THAT QUALIFY as the rules? staate now

another thing to consider, ICFRA - the WORLD ruling body does not have a rule covering the subject! - why do we worry about it?

if ;you really think about it, if your in the PRONE position, your BEHIND THE GUN! SO WHAT IF THE BUTT IS ON OR OFF THE SHOULDER - IT ENDS UP ON THE SHOULDER.

had this come before me several years back [i was a SITTING FEDERAL MAGISTRATE] i would have ruled - NO REQUIREMENT TO BE AGAINST THE SHOULDER. - reasons: not mentioned in 'position' and ambigious wording under 'rifle'. further, NO REQUIREMENT for U.S. to abide by/to higher regulations.

do we have any SITTING JUDGES reading this that would rule to the conrary? and why?

HABU
 
Ron,

Doesn't matter what some 'sitting judge' thinks - this is High Power. You know dang well what the rule say, and anybody with enough sense to pour piss out of a boot with the instructions written on the heel should be able to figure out what is meant by it. There are a lot of areas in which the NRA F-Class rules could use some clarification - this isn't one of them. Have the dang butt of the gun touching your shoulder when you pull the trigger and quit arguing about it. If you don't like it, go shoot Benchrest.

As to why our rules have it and the ICFRA rules don't... I imagine they haven't had as many people trying to 'game' the system as we have.

Monte
 
MONTE YOU ARE WRONG.

sorry i'm not as smart ass you. your use of words is a goal all should strive for.

oh, and one other thing, by stating this is 'high power' that judges are abouve or below - or is 'high power' exempt from the rule of law? or are you picking and choosing bits and pieces as you are want to do??

there WILL be a ruling in the near future.
habu
 

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