F-Class Open forend width - clarification needed

[RAGGED]

I’m currently building my first rifle from scratch and had a question about the forend width rule called out in the NRA rules, 3.4 (2) “The width of the rifle’s forend shall not exceed 76mm (approximately 3 inches).”

What technically defines “the forend”, is it simply the part of the rifle that touches the rest or is it any part of the rifle forward of the action? It would seem that any advantage to be gained would be specific to the width that rides In the bag and anything other than that would be fair game but I would hate to assume something and run into issues down the road. Also if anyone knows specifically who I should contact for official clarification that would help, as of right now I plan on calling the NRA HP Dept @ (703) 267-1479 once they are back in the office.

Thanks for any help you can give me

 

[SpencerC]

This is what is in the ICFRA rule book.

The F/O rifle may be supported by front and rear rests, or on bags (front and rear), which
provide no positive mechanical method for returning the rifle to its point of aim for the
previous shot. The area of contact between the front bag and the rifle fore-end will not
exceed 76mm x 76mm. No more than two rests may be used to support the rifle. If two rests
are employed, they may not be attached to each other.

 

[Taildrag15X]

I think this was addressed with a Competitor before at an NRA Match, the "Forearm starts in front of the trigger guard and goes forward toward the muzzle" was the ruling by the Jury Chairman under this Rule:

3.18 General - All devices or equipment which may facilitate shooting and which are not mentioned in these
rules, or which are contrary to the spirit of these rules and regulations, are forbidden. The Match Director, Official
Referee, Jury Chairman or Supervisor shall have the right to examine a shooter’s equipment or apparel. The
responsibility shall be upon the competitor to submit questionable equipment and apparel for official inspection and
approval in sufficient time prior to the beginning of a match so that it will not inconvenience either the competitor or
the official.

I like the ICFRA's 76mm X 76mm contact rule, I've seen rests with way more than that front to rear on the line.

 

[RAGGED]

I think this was addressed with a Competitor before at an NRA Match, the "Forearm starts in front of the trigger guard and goes forward toward the muzzle" was the ruling by the Jury Chairman under this Rule:

3.18 General - All devices or equipment which may facilitate shooting and which are not mentioned in these
rules, or which are contrary to the spirit of these rules and regulations, are forbidden. The Match Director, Official
Referee, Jury Chairman or Supervisor shall have the right to examine a shooter’s equipment or apparel. The
responsibility shall be upon the competitor to submit questionable equipment and apparel for official inspection and
approval in sufficient time prior to the beginning of a match so that it will not inconvenience either the competitor or
the official.

I like the ICFRA's 76mm X 76mm contact rule, I've seen rests with way more than that front to rear on the line.

Maybe its just me but I don’t see how rule 3.18 would apply to the ruling posted. In my case I have a 3.3" wide barrel block that is 8" to the rear of the rest bearing surface, in my mind that does not violate the spirit of the rule, to me the spirit of the rule is much more geared towards the contact area and not a part of the rifle that does not rest on the bag. I too like the ICFRA’s rule as it leaves nothing to be determined, without an official definition of what the forearm is the NRA rule seems like it could mean one thing to one guy and something different to another and that’s not how rules should be, clear and concise, not vague and open to interpretation

 

[Taildrag15X]

Rule 3.18 covers it just fine in my book......if the Match Director, or in the case in point I'm refering to, Jury Chairman took the direction and suggestions of the 3 Jury members to come up with this ruling then it is what it is.

Sure yours may be 3.3" wide, 8" behind the contact point, but the next guy will have it at the contact point if they think they can get away with it.

 

[RAGGED]

Rule 3.18 covers it just fine in my book......if the Match Director, or in the case in point I'm refering to, Jury Chairman took the direction and suggestions of the 3 Jury members to come up with this ruling then it is what it is.

Sure yours may be 3.3" wide, 8" behind the contact point, but the next guy will have it at the contact point if they think they can get away with it.

But then that would clearly be not in good spirit, seems wrong to have such an important decision in somewhat random hands, one match ruled one way, another match ruled the other, it should be absolutely clear and beyond debate from match to match, not in the hands of a jury chairman that may or may not be having a bad day or may or may not like you personally. Pulling a definition out of thin air seems insane, it should be specifically addressed if it is to be enforced.

 

[memilanuk]

Then your other option is to not try to push the ragged edge of the rules. For whatever reason, the NRA tends to leave things somewhat 'fuzzy' until you absolutely force their hand. Trying to nail down every single dimension beyond the point of debate, trying to anticipate every single 'what if'... would probably triple the size of the rule book.

76mm wide where it contacts the rest - which is where it matters - I think is going to be the primary concern. If your barrel block is that much wider... you'll have to take your chances until you run across someone who wants to argue the point and have a match director or referee/jury make a ruling on the matter. If it goes your way, ask to have it put down in writing, so you have a reference for the next time the question comes up.

As for contacting the NRA Competitions dept. and getting ahold of someone who even knows what F-Class is, much less able to give you an informed opinion on the rules concerning it... good luck.

 

[Taildrag15X]

Thanks for the input Monte, I know I don't want to go back to the old days, or see a page 75 for F/TR or Open Class:


http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-book.pdf

 

[RAGGED]

Then your other option is to not try to push the ragged edge of the rules. For whatever reason, the NRA tends to leave things somewhat 'fuzzy' until you absolutely force their hand. Trying to nail down every single dimension beyond the point of debate, trying to anticipate every single 'what if'... would probably triple the size of the rule book.

76mm wide where it contacts the rest - which is where it matters - I think is going to be the primary concern. If your barrel block is that much wider... you'll have to take your chances until you run across someone who wants to argue the point and have a match director or referee/jury make a ruling on the matter. If it goes your way, ask to have it put down in writing, so you have a reference for the next time the question comes up.

As for contacting the NRA Competitions dept. and getting a hold of someone who even knows what F-Class is, much less able to give you an informed opinion on the rules concerning it... good luck.

Thank you for all the great input guys! I must say it is frustrating to design to a set of guidelines that are less than specific. I interpret the rule like you do, 76mm at the point (or any point) that could be used to support the rifle. At any rate it's not some trickery, not trying to "push" the envelope, it just so happens this design has one VERY small point there the rifle gets a tad wider than 76mm, its well above the bottom datum plane of the forearm and 8" to the rear of the intended bag surface, to make it even simpler one could say there is no possible way to put more than 76mm on the bag, 1" in front of the trigger, 8" in front or 16" in front, if that’s not in good spirit I don't know what is. I guess at this point I'm torn, redo the design that’s nearly complete or continue and hope for the best, with my luck I would shoot NRA matches all summer without a hitch and then make the trek to Lodi in Sept and someone would make a stink. At any rate I’m likely putting the cart before the horse, I don’t think anyone would care if you had a 5” forearm as long as your coming in last place.


Who is officially in charge of making and maintaining the rules for NRA F-Class?

Again thanks for the input

 

[280man]

I believe its the NRA HighPower Committee

 

[smoking-brass]

The best bet is to call a F-class stock maker and ask them what and how they build their stocks....all that I know are 3 inches wide from the trigger guard foward two the muzzle...I think the rule is clear... appox.3 inches wide

 

[Zilla]

Some of them are more than 3" wide. Not by a lot, but they are over. Add some stock tape and it is even more so. I have never had a stock measured at a match. Would be interesting if someone did though. Might be a run on sandpaper at the local hardware store.

 

[smoking-brass]

Maybe the rule is right APPOX. not exact

 

[zullo74]

Monty nailed it.....

For whatever reason, the NRA tends to leave things somewhat 'fuzzy' until you absolutely force their hand.

They cannot write a rule that cannot be interpreted in several different ways to save their lives.

 

[Taildrag15X]

Stock makers can make them want they want....the Rifle must meet the Rules of the Game and is the responsibility of the Competitior to meet those rules......so build TO the Rule Book, not to BEAT or Push to the Ragged edge of the Rule Book.

My biggie is the weight in F/TR, 18.18 lbs., I've seen guys walk away from Tech. with a bare Rifle/Bi pod and then on the line have a Mirage tube and shield.

YES, MONTE NAILED IT.......

 

[RAGGED]

Stock makers can make them want they want....the Rifle must meet the Rules of the Game and is the responsibility of the Competitior to meet those rules......so build TO the Rule Book, not to BEAT or Push to the Ragged edge of the Rule Book.

My biggie is the weight in F/TR, 18.18 lbs., I've seen guys walk away from Tech. with a bare Rifle/Bi pod and then on the line have a Mirage tube and shield.

YES, MONTE NAILED IT.......

That's exactly what I'm trying to do, I just think the word "forarm" needs an official definition, if it is any part of the rifle forward of the trigger than by all means print it so I know, to me forearm is the flat area used to support the rifle, the contact area. At any rate I've changed the design and will re-machine parts, doesn't look as nice but o well.

 

[4xforfun]

To me, the 3" rule MUST pertain to the contact area between the rest and the stock. Otherwise, EVERY bolt action rifle would be illegal.

 

[Taildrag15X]

My bolt action rifle stocks are not over 3" wide ANYWHERE, how could that be ILLEGAL.

 

[RAGGED]

My bolt action rifle stocks are not over 3" wide ANYWHERE, how could that be ILLEGAL.

I think he’s talking if you count the edge of the bolt knob, from the far side of most stocks to the outside of the bolt knob is over 3", at least on many of my rifles, granted the bolt knob is not forward of the trigger but that call out is not in the official rules, again if that is what they define as forearm it should just be defined as such, leaving it up in the air for interpretation is silly, one sentence does not mean an extra page of rules.

 

[4xforfun]

Yep...Ragged nailed it.....measure ANY bolt action rifle From the widest point on the off side to the tip of the bolt. It is over 3" unless it is a rimfire. Then it will be touch and go.

Anyone who would disqualify a gun because the BBL block is over 3" is looking at DQ himself....if he shoots a bolt gun.

Just sayin...