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F-Class now has it's own Rules Book (2024)

The walkie-talkies used in range operation use the FRS frequencies that run from 462 to 467MHz. These are unlicensed frequencies and have a transmit power limit of up to 2 watts.

Bluetooth uses the 2.4GHz frequency band with spread spectrum technology with a very low power output. Bluetooth and WiFi share the unlicensed 2.4GHz frequency band but are designed to coexist, thanks to spread spectrum tech.

So BT and FRS do not interfere with one another, and that's why BT is allowed on the line.
The way the rule is written, BT is not allowed on the line and could be protested. There is no exclusion in the rule allowing or singling out BT or a specific range of radio frequencies.

A radio frequency is just that, and BT falls into that spectrum. Unfortunately, BT can’t just “identify“ as a non radio frequency because someone says so. The rule needs to be clarified, if that is the intent of those that wrote the rule. Fix the rule. Don’t try and change the definition of what a RF frequency is or isn’t.
 
I THINK they intended to prevent FRS radios from interfering with link to pit radios.
Even when on different channels you can get interference. That would be bad for safety. BT within teams probably won't. Unless it's a "coaching" restriction.
BT and E-Targets, if on the 2.4GHZ WIFI band could interfere with reception from the down range transmitter 1000yds away.
I've used a BT to phone radar chrono with an E-Target, also on the phone WIFI for practice and had no problems.

Proximity of a Receiver, even off channel, to a Transmitter can cause loss of reception.
Distant Transmitters usually don't cause issues except maybe on adjacent channels.
 
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Yeah, there's a bit of confusion going on here. FRS radios are exactly the types of radios used for range operations. These walkie-talkies are used to talk between the pits and the line and even between personnel on a wide line like BA. Nobody but range officials and personnel should be using radio equipment in the FRS range.

WiFi and BT use the 2.4GHz spectrum of the RF band, while FRS is at 462 to 467Mhz. The connection between the hub on the target and the access point on the line (Shotmarker) is using LoRa, a spread spectrum implementation on the 900MHz (902-929MHz) unlicensed frequencies.

WiFi, BT and cellphones use Spread Spectrum technology to communicate in binary packets, which is why the transmit power is so low, and they can share with many other transmitters. FRS radios on the other hand, use a higher power transmission on a single frequency to transmit actual voice. Some of the older folks here might remember the original cellphone bricks that used AMPS instead of GSM. These cellphones drained at an incredible rate, and you got charged by the sentence, or so it seemed.

The rule should be very clear that team equipment that uses FRS frequencies to communicate are banned. Only equipment that uses BT, (lower power and less distance than WiFi), is allowed for team communication. Nobody but the range personnel should set up a WiFi access point if etargets are used.

I'm not even sure I would allow point-to-point WiFi communication equipment, if such a thing even existed. I think BT is really all you need.
 
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So, no matter how many times I read the new rules, I don't see anything forbidding the use of;
1. Electronic levels
2. Chronographs
3. any other electronic device that doesn't specifically use radio frequency.

Or is my reading comprehension that poor?

Frank
 
Maybe write it like this?

No team may use any communication devices that have the potential to interfere with e targets or any range / operational communications. Check with match director if you have any questions about your communication equipment.
 
So, no matter how many times I read the new rules, I don't see anything forbidding the use of;
1. Electronic levels
2. Chronographs
3. any other electronic device that doesn't specifically use radio frequency.

Or is my reading comprehension that poor?

Frank
Surely that is covered in "spirt of".
 
Maybe write it like this?

No team may use any communication devices that have the potential to interfere with e targets or any range / operational communications. Check with match director if you have any questions about your communication equipment.

Not sufficient, you need to strictly limit the range. You do not want to be able to communicate with the pits, or people behind you or located elsewhere on the line. BT fits that.
 
This here is the only rest a real man needs.

View attachment 1531674

Tomorrow morning, at 3 x 20 x 600, I will “see” your Harris Swivel, (my Open rest of choice for 5 years) and I’ll raise you a factory Savage, about 15 years old.

1710025136595.jpeg

6 BR the old way, SMK 107, Varget and Lapua brass with free authentic patina (more where that came from). I believe that any factory Savage barrels that look like this have “special” owners.

Trying to decide whether a barrel put away dirty, still would be.
 

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But still apparently legal for F class shooting, would you agree??
Dave
It was in the rules that were in effect at the time of that interview when F Class was in the High Power rules. That verbiage regarding digital levels appears to be missing from the dedicated F Class rule book that was released after that interview.
It's still in the High Power rules View attachment 1527680
why is it not permitted. what is the difference between a spirit level and the electronic level. they are both for cant, one is electronic, and the other is oil based they do the same thing, and the electronic one has no sound. Also where (what page) in the NRA high power rules dates 2020 does mention what you have posted.
 
why is it not permitted. what is the difference between a spirit level and the electronic level. they are both for cant, one is electronic, and the other is oil based they do the same thing, and the electronic one has no sound. Also where (what page) in the NRA high power rules dates 2020 does mention what you have posted.
It's still a current High Power rule
1710947429884.png
 
All I got to say about these NEW F-Class rules is the rules committee needs to more than just one weekend to put NEW rules together and vetting them for all. First, it's the rules committee to provide the competition shooter the meanings or explanation in what they are expressing in the rules. for instance, "In the Spirit of these rules" what is that. No, I'm not going to look it up because my interpretation might be different than the rules committee. they have to define what that is along with another expression they used ""what was envisioned when F-class bean". in looking at the rules either open or T/R in the paragraph that mentions the rifles overall weight. it's talks about attachments and gives reference to some attachments but not others. Example sling, mirage shield, rain cover and bipod. Doesn't mention anything about any other attachments and this pertains to "weight" only. Remember these are NEW rules and anything that was assumed before is not in these rules. This is very important because if go to the NEW rule which is not in the NRA High power rules, 3.18 "All devices or equipment which may facilitate shooting and which are not mentioned in these rules, or which are contrary to the spirit of these rules and regulations, are forbidden. The Match Director, Official Referee, Jury Chairman or Supervisor shall have the right to examine a shooter’s equipment or apparel. The responsibility shall be upon the competitor to submit questionable equipment and apparel for official inspection and approval in sufficient time prior to the beginning of a match so that it will not inconvenience either the competitor or the official". So, these are NEW rules and show me where does it mention that you can use a spirit level, R.A.D. system, Tuner. So, the rules committee has left it up to the to competitor to submit for approval. You can tell me it's covered in the weight section as I have mentioned BUT that is stating attachments for weight only. you have to get the attachment approved before you can attach it for your weight. You can try at the match to get it approved but why take the chance. submit your request through NRA competition office and they will forward it to the rules committee for approve. Again, this rule is brand new. Agin what is contrary to the spirit, again this is something that is the responsibility of the rules committee to explain in detail within the rule book. Here is another one, 3.22 Electronic Devices-Competitors are responsible for ensuring all electronic communications and audio devices in their possession forward of
the Ready Line are silenced, and communications disabled. so, you have the questionable level that is electronic, but it makes no sounds. so why can't you use it. Another one is the round caddies that have a countdown timer that makes and audio sound when it ends. I haven't found one that doesn't make an audio sound so should those timers be illegal? to me yes because they make an audio sound. look at the rule. I have more but here is the last one which clearly sees that the committee has not fully vetted these rules. Under 3.22 (a) "During team matches only; team members may communicate with each other via hard-wired or wireless communications devices. These communication devices must not transmit over a radio frequency, and must not interfere with safety, range operations or other competitors. Hate to say but the wireless communication devices should not be in this rule because wireless does communicate over radio frequency between 2-5 GHZ and so does WIFI.

Yes, you might be asking yourself by this time that I'm full of it and causing problems, but you have to ask yourself are you a shooter or a competitor because a shooter is there for fun and don't care about rules. A competitor is there to compete and comply by the rules. That is why it's so important to clearly understand and in writing what these rules are. remember we can't assume what was before because these are NEW separate rules. The competition community needs to hear from the rules committee on this. These rules were made in a weekend with no consideration of the competition community. WE could have given input to make it better for all and the future of F-Class.
 
I THINK they intended to prevent FRS radios from interfering with link to pit radios.
Even when on different channels you can get interference. That would be bad for safety. BT within teams probably won't. Unless it's a "coaching" restriction.
BT and E-Targets, if on the 2.4GHZ WIFI band could interfere with reception from the down range transmitter 1000yds away.
I've used a BT to phone radar chrono with an E-Target, also on the phone WIFI for practice and had no problems.

Proximity of a Receiver, even off channel, to a Transmitter can cause loss of reception.
Distant Transmitters usually don't cause issues except maybe on adjacent channels.
but the rule says, "radio frequency". Bluetooth transmits over 2-5 GHZ too. Wi-Fi could interfere with the electronic targets. We think what the intent is but in black and white it's the rule so there should be no "intent". this is why it's written in bland and white so that we know but in this case the committee is wrong. that's i agree with Warren
 
So, no matter how many times I read the new rules, I don't see anything forbidding the use of;
1. Electronic levels
2. Chronographs
3. any other electronic device that doesn't specifically use radio frequency.

Or is my reading comprehension that poor?

Frank
you are right but rule 3.18 is a catch all as it states that if it's not in the rules it forbidden. so you would have to submit that device or equipment to the rules committee for approval.
 
John, thanks I have not seen the 2024 NRA High Power rifle rulebook yet. didn't know it came out. must have came out the same time the new f-class rules did. this is a new rule for high power too i see because it wasn't in the 2020 rule book. thank you.
It's been in there since at least January of 23.
 

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