F-class FTR 6BR class

[Steveb]

Hi Laurie

Thought you had forgotten about me. Smile!!

My biggest concerns are getting new people shooting in the sport and getting the old timers shooting at the short ranges. Here a lot of the old timers don't want to shoot in the close ranges and prefer to drive for twice the distance to shoot at the long ranges because it appears to be more fun. (perhaps it is) We sit in the middle of the province and driving west gets you the shorter ranges while driving east gets the longer. Consequently the better shooters who can train the newcomers don't like to drive west. I feel we need the oldtimers mixing in with the newcomers to spread the knowledge and tricks about the sport to the newcomers.

The sling shooters have become so inbred that they don't encourage newcomers, at least that is the way it is locally, and I don't want that to happen to F-Class shooting.

Therefore, I thought if we provide a way to get new shooters involved and products for the shooting stores to sell for us then more people would come out. Locally it is hard to get a store to help us because there is no product for them to sell and make money off us.

If they could sell an off the shelf rifle and normal "tacicool" type scope then we could get more people shooting.

My proposal for a mid range limit means we don't have to change the F-class divisions and can leave them as is so when the new people want to upgrade then they don't change divisions at all.

The wife says Hi!

Steve

 

[Lbart]

Steve,
I don't care for your idea. I have shot nothing but a 7 Shehane for 300-600 for a number of years. I can and have used it good effect out through 1k. If I go to one of your proposed matches I would have to buy a new rifle/barrel and new dies and components. If I went to a match which has mid-range and long-range components I would have to/want to take at least 2 rifles if I was to be legal under your proposal.

I fail to see the logic in your proposal. IF you did gain a few newbie's you would most likely lose more of the current shooters than you gained. I think you are trying to solve a local problem on a national/international scale.

In all my years of competition shooting I have often been told "if we change the rules they will come". Unfortunately that is not the case. Even if "they" come, the very vast majority will not stay. If they don't win quickly they leave for greener pastures. Only the "Competitors" will stay. I am not talking about the winners, but those who like competing at any level, be it for the joy of shooting or joy of meeting with like minded friends.

Regarding spreading "the knowledge and tricks about the sport to newcomers", have someone teach a class or two.

 

[Steveb]

Hi Larry.

I respect your viewpoint and tend to agree somewhat but for all of B.C. we don't have mixed mid-range/long range matches. The only rifle ranges we have are 600 meters and shorter therefore the only thing we can shoot are mid-range matches. I shoot the 300 SAUM and have been shooting it in all matches from 300 on out to 1000. I am currently considering going to the 6.5 x 47 for the closer matches to learn more about the wind and developing my skills.

If we limit the cartridges for the shorter ranges only then everybody gets on a more even playing field similar to the Nascar model where driver skills play a more important role as opposed to an equipment race.

Most shooters I am shooting with own several rifles anyway so the excuse I have to have a different rifle doesn't hold water for me. I have 4 match rifles myself.

Secondly, for example, the rifle I proposed for the shorter ranges and 223 would be a cheaper alternative to a full blown F-Open/F-TR rifle anyway and could be used as a gopher rifle as the limiting requirements preclude serious investments. A 223 Ruger varmint rifle would be competitive against a Rem Varmint rifle. No need for a single shot Barnard and Krieger stainless barrel set in a MacMillan stock. If you have all of that then the bullet weight isn't good enough to overcome all the good stuff.

Then we can leave the divisions alone and not have to change anything about them. If you come to a long range event, shoot what you bring without restrictions. All I am talking about are the short range sites.

Just my suggestion.

Steve

 

[Erik Cortina]

Steveb, I don't think caliber restrictions will do anything. The guys that are winning now will continue to win, so shooter skills are already winning matches.

You speak about cheaper rifles and lower operating costs. Are shooters not free to do that now? I myself have a 6.5x47 Lapua for midrange and a .300 WSM for long range. Lately, I've been thinking really hard about going back to a 7mm for everything because it would make life easier on me. I would have one gun, one set of dies, one comparator, pointing die, etc, etc. I also would not have to change powders, adjust trimmer, and and make any of the changes to my tools required to load for a different cartridge.

F-Class is the fastest growing shooting sport, apparently shooters like it just fine the way it is. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[broncman]

The cheaper class argument is bogus in my opinion. Even if you call it a factory class, someone would get upet because the next guy over would be shooting a factory Savage FTR and the guy next to him would want to compete with a Remy or Ruger varmint and one or the other would complain about it becoming an arms race.

Again , what would 6BR gain you or your kids over a well tuned 223 at midrange?

You can always shoot F Open with a Bipod. My Hendriksen 6BRX reamer is finally on the way and will go in an EXACT duplicate chassis of my FTR rifle. My reasoning is consistent gun handling and no switch up between classes. Weight will be added to the FOpen but it will use a bipod as well.

I do not see a front benchrest style rest gaining anything over a light recoiling 6 mm.


Again, what is broken with the current F classes?

 

[Steveb]

Hi Erik

I agree with your concept of using the same for everything. This is what I was doing with my 300 SAUM's. I have 3 identical rifles and just rotate them according to barrel wear. I also am planning to go back to a plain 284 over time as the barrels and brass wear out. As we discussed previously, the last lot of Rem brass was so bad I lost 1/2 of them on the first firing using loads I have been using for years.

You mentioned that F-Class is going fast. Here, it is growing but our growth is limited by the lack of easily attainable rifles. In Canada the source of components is limited and anything from the US takes a long long time due to your export restrictions and rules. We have a different situation than you do.

Secondly, why waste a good barrel shooting a long range cartridge at closer ranges? You don't need a 300 for a 300 meter match.

Thirdly, what does the mid-range classification mean anyway? Why not make the mid-range events as important as the long range events?

People are free to choose what to shoot but the tendency for anyone is the desire to win. 7mm and 300 simply work better in the winds. You know that! If people are getting beat by a better shooter shooting a 7 or bigger then the natural tendency is to assume it is the cartridge and rifle and not the skill of the driver.

Again, I have two concerns. One is getting new people involved and the cost of the rifle isn't the issue actually for me but the availability. The other is making the mid-range matches on short ranges fun to shoot again so people will come to them.

Steve

 

[Steveb]

Broncoman

I have addressed the cost/cheaper rifle issue above. The cost isn't the issue for me but the availability of a rifle. Right now our stores aren't interested in our game because it doesn't bring in revenue for them since the rules favour the custom. They aren't interested and therefore don't help us. However, I actually don't care if somebody brings a custom rifle to compete. A Krieger barrel shooting lighter barrels wouldn't be the advantage it is now since the lighter bullets don't fight the wind as much. Doesn't matter what you shoot them in.

Since my thought was not change the divisions at all only the definition of the mid verses long range for specific sites then I don't care what people shoot in either class. 6mm or Dasher or 6.5 x47L in F-Open and 223 in F-TR.

All this does is level the playing field and provide access quickly to some sort of off the shelf match rifle. How about a Ruger varmint in 6.5 Creedmore?

I actually have been doing exactly what you suggested for years. All my rifles are setup to shoot off a bipod and are interchangeable. I shoot F-Open using a 300 SAUM with rifles that are interchangeable to F-TR rifles. Drop in a new bolt and barrel in 308 and I can shoot F-Tr. I use the same contour for both and the rifles make weight for F-TR.

I have found exactly what you suggested. There is no advantage to the rests over bipods for the lighter calibers particularly if you aren't shooting string. The heavier recoiling rifles do have an advantage using the rests because the rifles don't bounce as much off the targets. You can actually mitigate the bounce by using something like the MPOD bipod over the Rempal style though. Still makes it harder to shoot string.

I actually agree that within the divisions there is nothing wrong but want to get more people involved and the supply chain increased to make our sport even better.

 

[6BRinNZ]

Again, I have two concerns. One is getting new people involved and the cost of the rifle isn't the issue actually for me but the availability.

Steve

Have you looked at other countries? Barnards are made in NZ as are TrueFlite Barrels. TrueFlite make FO stocks for the Barnard, in essence it would be a turn key solution.

I went US components for my FTR rifle (not including barrel) but only because I was worried about weight. Turns out I shouldn't have worried quite so much as I am now a pound under.

 

[gaboon]

Has anybody look at the cost of shooting in general. The cost of components has gone up and keeps going up. Most people can shoot what they can afford. Introducing different calibers in Ftr would be take the challenge out of the class. What would happen to the palma shooting class. Its the shooter's skills that win matches not the gun or equipment.