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F-Class equipment list

Mulligan

Silver $$ Contributor
As a shooter fairly new to competition, I pay attention to the equipment the top shooters are using.
Although I have not participated in LR benchrest shooting yet, I still watch the equipment list.
Maybe I have just missed it, however F-class matches do not post an equipment list. The Berger SW shoot does provide an equipment list however, it is not separated by shooter so one can extract some more useful data. Not saying the list as it is, is not useful. It would be more useful if I could extrapolate what equipment the winners were using. As near as I can tell this is the only F-class equipment list produced. Do the other national shoots have an equipment list?
The benchrest crowd, produces a nice product that us rookies can follow and make more informed decisions.
Thanks
CW
 
Scott Harris put this list together back in 2015. It list the names of competitors.
There should be others, just have to search for them.
You don't need very much, I have seen that fine rifle you have, very nice.
Hope to see you at Wyoming this year.
Long Range is not only about the arrow, mostly it's about the Indian.
You have to do the work of finding the best reloads for your equipment. For a new shooter, this means navigating through all the wives tales and come up with your own conclusions by testing each component for yourself. Good shooting.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/f-class-nationals-equipment-list.3886672/
 
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Scott Harris put this list together back in 2015. It list the names of competitors.
There should be others, just have to search for them.
You don't need very much, I have seen that fine rifle you have, very nice.
Hope to see you at Wyoming this year.
Long Range is not only about the arrow. You have to do the work of finding the best
reloads for your equipment. For a new shooter, this means navigating through all the wives tales and come up with your own conclusions by testing each component for yourself. Good shooting.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/f-class-nationals-equipment-list.3886672/
Thanks Joe,
Being able to see each the progression each year is helpful. As new equipment is developed, to see if the top shooters switch to the improved equipment or shy away from the ‘BLING’ is of value to us rookies.
I have every intention of shooting the weekend MR/LR match and the LR state shoot. My 34th anniversary falls in the weekend of your MR shoot and in 34 years i have learned enough to not step in that. I kinda like the little Mrs. :D:D
CW
 
Scott Harris put this list together back in 2015. It list the names of competitors.
There should be others, just have to search for them.
You don't need very much, I have seen that fine rifle you have, very nice.
Hope to see you at Wyoming this year.
Long Range is not only about the arrow. You have to do the work of finding the best
reloads for your equipment. For a new shooter, this means navigating through all the wives tales and come up with your own conclusions by testing each component for yourself. Good shooting.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/f-class-nationals-equipment-list.3886672/
Thanks for the link Joe..

180 Hybrid certainly dominated!!
 
Thanks Joe,
Being able to see each the progression each year is helpful. As new equipment is developed, to see if the top shooters switch to the improved equipment or shy away from the ‘BLING’ is of value to us rookies.
I have every intention of shooting the weekend MR/LR match and the LR state shoot. My 34th anniversary falls in the weekend of your MR shoot and in 34 years i have learned enough to not step in that. I kinda like the little Mrs. :D:D
CW

In your mind maybe. Not trying to be a jerk here but what these lists are really useful for is separating less experienced folks from their hard-earned money, because they simply MUST have the latest and greatest toys or else they can't POSSIBLY be competitive. Unfortunately, simply copying what equipment the "winners" are using is never any guarantee of performance, because their success also depends on ridiculous amounts of practice, hard work, and experience. Further, as they have likely worked extremely long and hard to develop their preferred equipment list (as well as honing their shooting skills), why should those items simply be spoon fed to anyone on some equipment list simply so that they can rush out and purchase the exact same setup with no thought or effort?

You and others at a similar experience level would do far better to select the highest BC bullets for which you are capable of effectively managing the recoil, developing a solid load with them (i.e. less than 0.5 MOA for 5 shots at 100 yd) in your rifle, then practicing to improve your shooting and wind reading skills. This approach is far more likely to generate success in competition than simply copying the latest equipment trends among match winners.
 
In your mind maybe. Not trying to be a jerk here but what these lists are really useful for is separating less experienced folks from their hard-earned money, because they simply MUST have the latest and greatest toys or else they can't POSSIBLY be competitive. Unfortunately, simply copying what equipment the "winners" are using is never any guarantee of performance, because their success also depends on ridiculous amounts of practice, hard work, and experience. Further, as they have likely worked extremely long and hard to develop their preferred equipment list (as well as honing their shooting skills), why should those items simply be spoon fed to anyone on some equipment list simply so that they can rush out and purchase the exact same setup with no thought or effort?

You and others at a similar experience level would do far better to select the highest BC bullets for which you are capable of effectively managing the recoil, developing a solid load with them (i.e. less than 0.5 MOA for 5 shots at 100 yd) in your rifle, then practicing to improve your shooting and wind reading skills. This approach is far more likely to generate success in competition than simply copying the latest equipment trends among match winners.

You missed the point.
If every one of the top 10 shooters in the game is shooting a BAT action, why would I buy something different if i want to get in the game?
The same for stocks, scopes etc. I’m not asking for load data or private lessons on wind reading. Just an equipment list like the BR crowd produces.
CW
 
In your mind maybe. Not trying to be a jerk here but what these lists are really useful for is separating less experienced folks from their hard-earned money, because they simply MUST have the latest and greatest toys or else they can't POSSIBLY be competitive.

I have to somewhat agree with this observation. I keep hearing this word "competitive", being used over and over again. In fact, I have heard some top F Class shooters in their videos say things like "I shoot XXX, and if you don't have an XXX, you might as well not even show up". That is some serious psychout stuff right there... That is a competitor getting into the head of everyone he shoots against, and everyone he might ever shoot against. And it is almost part of the culture to nurture this.

The truth is everyone on that list LOST except one guy. Shooting their REQUIRED XXX gear.

I find the entire concept that if you were to show up with a Stolle Panda, maybe a Borden, or similar action you would automatically be an "also ran" because Bats are "competitive" to be a chuckle. I mean there is a bunch of Bats got WHOOPED on that list. Better luck next year!!! It is Ford and Chevy bashing... Just noise.
 
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What I'm trying to point out is simply that having a BAT action will not ensure higher scores. That goes for pretty much any action/barrel/trigger/stock you care to name, because you'll find top shooters using a variety of different action. The reason top shooters are at the top is because they worked long and hard to get there, not because they shoot a BAT action instead of a Panda. Both are fine actions and equipment lists simply do not contain enough critical information for anyone to reproduce another's results. In fact, if you managed to find a comprehensive equipment list that covered Regional (or higher) level matches for a year, what you would find is that the same people are always at the top of the leader board; yet their setups/chosen equipment would vary widely. On top of that, ask yourself how many people using BAT actions did not finish anywhere near the top of the leaderboard.

Top shooters can win with a Panda, Borden, Defiance, BAT, Stiller, or half a dozen other actions; they also might prefer a Bartlein, Brux, Krieger, or a few other barrel manufacturers, the same is true of triggers, scopes, and bipods/front rests, rear bags, etc. By the time it's all said and done, it's really what they do behind the rifle that makes the difference. Not everyone can afford the absolute top-level equipment when they're first starting out. If you can, so much the better. But please tell me how you can distinguish between Panda, Borden, Defiance, BAT, Stiller, or half a dozen other actions, simply by reading an equipment list, because you will most definitely find top shooters using all of them.

My biggest concern is for new shooters that think if they don't have one of these actions, they will never be able to improve or post decent scores. A good friend and fellow member here at A.S., Steve Blair, likes to call this phenomena, "Magic Beans". Somehow, a lot of people think that simply by having the supposed "top" equipment available (i.e. "Magic Beans"), they will somehow miraculously become better shooters and it simply ain't so. Yes, having a solid setup is important. But the definition of "solid" equipment isn't really any clearer than the definition of "top" equipment. I've seen some extremely impressive scores posted with bone stock Savage F-TR rifles, although my personal opinion is that a Savage action will only shoot better with a decent barrel (again, Bartlein/Brux/Krieger, etc.) chambered appropriately installed on it.

So for those shooters my advice again is not to get too caught up in what top shooters are using, especially if your budget won't allow it. Buy yourself some "solid" equipment, certainly the best you can reasonably afford. But don't get caught up in the notion that knowing what the top shooters are using is going to be essential to any future success. Much of what they do to distinguish themselves above the rest will never show up on any equipment list; that information is simply not there. Buy what you can afford; choose a proven high BC bullet that is appropriate for your specific setup (freebore, twist rate, etc.); develop a good load that will consistently shoot 5-shot groups at 100 yd under half a minute; then go out and practice and learn to read the wind conditions, and just as importantly, when NOT to pull the trigger. I think most will find this a surer and possibly somewhat less expensive path to improvement.
 
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You don't know how truthful shooters are while filling out equipment lists. Some like to tell stories just to mess with others. You have to use what works for you. Here is an example; Bob Sebold has won F open at Berger in 2015 and 2018. He doesn't use a joystick rest. He has a Viper, and it works for him. Others aren't getting rid of their SEB, and ordering Vipers. I also know that he has his barrels cut a little shorter than most use. It's not that they shoot better that way, it's so that the rifles fit into the hard cases that he uses while traveling.
 
You don't know how truthful shooters are while filling out equipment lists. Some like to tell stories just to mess with others. You have to use what works for you. Here is an example; Bob Sebold has won F open at Berger in 2015 and 2018. He doesn't use a joystick rest. He has a Viper, and it works for him. Others aren't getting rid of their SEB, and ordering Vipers. I also know that he has his barrels cut a little shorter than most use. It's not that they shoot better that way, it's so that the rifles fit into the hard cases that he uses while traveling.
No argument there.
However you have to admit, if you looked at the shooting line at the SWN you would see a plethora of SEB NEO rests. The beginner would not be in error to invest in a NEO.
The equipment list has its place, I believe it helps the novice know they are not making mistakes in equipment purchases.
Confidence in your equipment is a major factor. When your a novice, you question everything.
Clay
 
You missed the point.
If every one of the top 10 shooters in the game is shooting a BAT action, why would I buy something different if i want to get in the game?
The same for stocks, scopes etc. I’m not asking for load data or private lessons on wind reading. Just an equipment list like the BR crowd produces.
CW

More than looking at what the top ten shooters use you need to know why they use them. As far as actions and barrels go as long as your using top shelf parts there isn't much difference in how they perform. Just because the top 5 might have used a Bat it would be foolish to not use a Borden, Kelbly or several other brands. The same goes for glass. A NF BR might be old school but it will track with us best. Same for Sightron. A March won't buy you points. Bullets are a different story. Some are to be easier to tune, some tend to hold vertical a little tighter. So again knowing why is far more important than what.
 
More than looking at what the top ten shooters use you need to know why they use them. As far as actions and barrels go as long as your using top shelf parts there isn't much difference in how they perform. Just because the top 5 might have used a Bat it would be foolish to not use a Borden, Kelbly or several other brands. The same goes for glass. A NF BR might be old school but it will track with us best. Same for Sightron. A March won't buy you points. Bullets are a different story. Some are to be easier to tune, some tend to hold vertical a little tighter. So again knowing why is far more important than what.
My smith would agree.. his advice is buy the best you can eg, BAT, Stolle, Borden, Mcmillan or the like stocks, match barrel and good trigger eg Jewell. Buy good bullet components like Berger, Sierra or custom, Lapua brass. Choose a proven round for your discipline and learn how to reload the best you can and learn how to tune best you can and shoot as much as you can and last but not least learn how to read wind. Easy!!
 
I have marveled at the fact that guys have posted they won't shoot Vit powder, cuz it's too expensive... haha After all this!!!
 
You don't know how truthful shooters are while filling out equipment lists
Gringostar is correct. Before you could actually sign up for last years Southwest Nationals, you had to fill out an equipment list. Very petty thing, but I remember how it pissed me off. I also remember the chuckle I got when I discovered what equipment I was using because I checked whatever was handy to just get through it. I could care less what others use, and I'm quite sure nobody cares what I use. I am not a sponsored shooter and have no desire to be. (I have to amend that. I would like to say Thank You to my little wife for sponsoring me.) Long story short, we all have different tastes and likes, to run out and purchase XXXX just because someone else uses it is ridicules IMHO.
 
Gringostar is correct. Before you could actually sign up for last years Southwest Nationals, you had to fill out an equipment list. Very petty thing, but I remember how it pissed me off. I also remember the chuckle I got when I discovered what equipment I was using because I checked whatever was handy to just get through it. I could care less what others use, and I'm quite sure nobody cares what I use. I am not a sponsored shooter and have no desire to be. (I have to amend that. I would like to say Thank You to my little wife for sponsoring me.) Long story short, we all have different tastes and likes, to run out and purchase XXXX just because someone else uses it is ridicules IMHO.
So you filled out the equipment list falsely or not at all?
 
I have marveled at the fact that guys have posted they won't shoot Vit powder, cuz it's too expensive... haha After all this!!!
It's not the expense. I couldn't ever get the temperature sensitive crap to work as well as what I use. Matter of fact, I still have several 8 pounders of it that I've tried to sell, trade and just flat give away.
 

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