f-class/ 1000 br stock/tactical
- Thread starter PJ
- Start date
I use an adjustable McMillan A-5 for both F-class and tac matches. Works great.
I usually shoot off a bipod. It works pretty well with a bag too, but it's not the same as a flat bottom forend like on a dedicated BR stock--you will get some torque rotation. The rear works fine off a bunny ear bag--pretty much the same as any BR stock.
MarkS
Silver $$ Contributor
PJ,
For long range benchrest and F class, I like a Richard Franklin's New LowRider. The front and rear are parallel, you stay in target at 1000 yds. But I don't think the flat rear would make a good tactial stock. you may want to look at two stocks. I have a Hall action with a lowRider And a McMillion Hunter Benchrest stock. it has a 2.25" flat forearm. I use it for hunting & Egg shoots with Bi-pods.
Mark
For long range benchrest and F class, I like a Richard Franklin's New LowRider. The front and rear are parallel, you stay in target at 1000 yds. But I don't think the flat rear would make a good tactial stock. you may want to look at two stocks. I have a Hall action with a lowRider And a McMillion Hunter Benchrest stock. it has a 2.25" flat forearm. I use it for hunting & Egg shoots with Bi-pods.
Mark
You'll never find one stock that does both well. However if your shooting f-class FTR .308 and .223 only off a bipod you might make one stock work.
However I think you'd be looking at one action and barrel and two stocks if you wanted to use the same "gun".
F-class has turned into belly benchrest. A tactical stock will give you too much torque in the bags cause it doesn't have a flat forend.
You might be able to make a rig with a rail and then have the rail allow an insert for a flat bottom stock modifer, I believe I saw someone on here doing that with their Sako TRG.
RHINOUT!
However I think you'd be looking at one action and barrel and two stocks if you wanted to use the same "gun".
F-class has turned into belly benchrest. A tactical stock will give you too much torque in the bags cause it doesn't have a flat forend.
You might be able to make a rig with a rail and then have the rail allow an insert for a flat bottom stock modifer, I believe I saw someone on here doing that with their Sako TRG.
RHINOUT!
Rhino,
FTR is that factory target rifle class? I was thinking 308 has some limits at 1000 yards. Am i wrong ? I'm thinking a 6mm br might fit the bill pretty well.
Am i right in thinking this?
Guys,
Does anyone know the weight of a rem 700 action,mc a5 stock with adj butt and cheek, krieger mtu barrel fluted, maybe a nf benchrest 12-42 scope?
FTR is that factory target rifle class? I was thinking 308 has some limits at 1000 yards. Am i wrong ? I'm thinking a 6mm br might fit the bill pretty well.
Am i right in thinking this?
Guys,
Does anyone know the weight of a rem 700 action,mc a5 stock with adj butt and cheek, krieger mtu barrel fluted, maybe a nf benchrest 12-42 scope?
Dasher,
I thought that i read that 6.5 jackets had a problem being pushed to high speed? I thought that the 308 had a problem staying stable to 1000
yards? Also if i went with ftr rifle i think i have a weight limit of 18.5 lbs right?
Can a mcm a5,nf br 12-42-56mm,d.d. ross floorplate, krieger mtu fluted, make the weight?
I thought that i read that 6.5 jackets had a problem being pushed to high speed? I thought that the 308 had a problem staying stable to 1000
yards? Also if i went with ftr rifle i think i have a weight limit of 18.5 lbs right?
Can a mcm a5,nf br 12-42-56mm,d.d. ross floorplate, krieger mtu fluted, make the weight?
I shoot the FTR class with a 308 in a McMillan A-5 off a bipod. It has a 22" barrel and I have no problem getting to 1K. This is clearly not the best rig for F-Class, I just shoot it to practice for tactical shoots which the rifle is designed for.
You should make the weight with your set-up as long as you don't have a heavy fill in the stock and a long barrel. If you plan on shooting it in tac matches you may want a shorter barrel and a DM setup rather than a floorplate.
You should make the weight with your set-up as long as you don't have a heavy fill in the stock and a long barrel. If you plan on shooting it in tac matches you may want a shorter barrel and a DM setup rather than a floorplate.
certain j4 jackets were bad, so was the rumor Hence the Bergers and other custom bullets would explode. Some thought it was due to the cut rifled barrels. Alan informed me it that in fact it was a core issue, if I remember correctly.
a 6.5 is great for 1k shooting. A 260 or larger case works well. Typically a 6.5x.284 case is used with H4350 or H4831sc. 142 smk's tend to be the standard fodder.
Big issue with the 6.5x.284 is the bore life is short 1k and you'll be looking for a new tube.
The 6.5x47 with the new 130 vld bergers might be a nice combo.
More bore life and BC similar to the 142smks.
RHINOUT!
a 6.5 is great for 1k shooting. A 260 or larger case works well. Typically a 6.5x.284 case is used with H4350 or H4831sc. 142 smk's tend to be the standard fodder.
Big issue with the 6.5x.284 is the bore life is short 1k and you'll be looking for a new tube.
The 6.5x47 with the new 130 vld bergers might be a nice combo.
More bore life and BC similar to the 142smks.
RHINOUT!
pj,
Why not build a sled for an A5. My Fclass rifle is built on an A5 with a sled that my pistolsmith milled out for me. I just screw it on to where the sling swivel studs are. We milled out some pockets in the sled to add lead to bring the weight up to 22lbs. It's worked pretty good for me so far.
Why not build a sled for an A5. My Fclass rifle is built on an A5 with a sled that my pistolsmith milled out for me. I just screw it on to where the sling swivel studs are. We milled out some pockets in the sled to add lead to bring the weight up to 22lbs. It's worked pretty good for me so far.
sf340driver,
Why a dm over floorplate? I'm thinking that the floorplate will make a stiffer platform. Which weight bullet do you use for your shoots? as far as
my setup i read about a smith having mcm do a graphite a4 "i think"stock
dropped some weight off the stock. I was thinking about doing the same with an a5 with adj. cheek and butt plate. I'm kind of tall at 6'5" and think the adj system would work good for me.
Why a dm over floorplate? I'm thinking that the floorplate will make a stiffer platform. Which weight bullet do you use for your shoots? as far as
my setup i read about a smith having mcm do a graphite a4 "i think"stock
dropped some weight off the stock. I was thinking about doing the same with an a5 with adj. cheek and butt plate. I'm kind of tall at 6'5" and think the adj system would work good for me.
PJ said:
Keep in mind I set my rifle up for tac style matches and use it for FTR. The DM has a pretty big advantage in the tac matches as there are courses with required reloads. There are also a lot courses which require 10 or more rounds in a string. A 10 rnd mag makes life easier. As far as a floorplate being stiffer than a DM setup???? I don't think either adds any rigidity to the setup.
McMillan calls the carbon fiber stocks "edge". You would ask for an A-5 edge when you order. The stock is lighter and just as stiff. It cannot be made in the molded in colors -- it's painted instead. I'm not sure of the price difference, and I'm not sure it's worth it for a few ounces. If you need the ultralight stock to get your barreled action under weight that means you have an 18lb rifle. If your going to carry it around for a tac match life will suck -- the positional shooting will suck too. I agree with the previous post about using a mounted plate to add weight and ride the front bag.
My go to load is a 155 Scenar over RL-15. It shoots at a bit over 2900fps with no pressure issues. I also have a 175 SMK load.
BTW: I'm 6'2" and I order my A-5s with the adjustable LOP plus 1". They will leave the stock an inch longer than the standard adjustable stock -- they normally cut some of the rear of the stock off to add the adjustable LOP. This way they leave and extra inch on it. I still use one 1/2 inch spacers and one 1/4 inch spacer plus the 1/2 inch recoil pad -- still plenty of room to move.
sf340driver,
I read an article over on snipershide about a rifle being built with a graphite a5 stock. i think the article said the stock came out at around 2 lbs.
With a 24" barrel. I'm thinking the setup i want should be able to be an all around shooter. A tactical,f-class, 1000 yard shooter. I don't think the article i read mentioned anything about fluting the barrel or any adjustments for the stock. But with a graphite stock, fluted barrel i should be able to add the adjustments without picking up too much weight.
My current rifle is a rem pss with mark4 m1 scope shoots ok but you know how people are. Always want bigger and or better. I've shot with a swat instructor a few times in classes and learned alot. We shot out to 1000 yards on steel targets.The instructor swears by robar rifles. I just don't have the money for one. So i'll piece a rem 700 together with what i want as i go. Maybe get a custom action then go from there. i'll see.
I read an article over on snipershide about a rifle being built with a graphite a5 stock. i think the article said the stock came out at around 2 lbs.
With a 24" barrel. I'm thinking the setup i want should be able to be an all around shooter. A tactical,f-class, 1000 yard shooter. I don't think the article i read mentioned anything about fluting the barrel or any adjustments for the stock. But with a graphite stock, fluted barrel i should be able to add the adjustments without picking up too much weight.
My current rifle is a rem pss with mark4 m1 scope shoots ok but you know how people are. Always want bigger and or better. I've shot with a swat instructor a few times in classes and learned alot. We shot out to 1000 yards on steel targets.The instructor swears by robar rifles. I just don't have the money for one. So i'll piece a rem 700 together with what i want as i go. Maybe get a custom action then go from there. i'll see.
PJ, contact Terry Cross, KMW Long Range Solutions, KMW308@aol.com) for the rifle you are seeking. He is currently one of the hottest Tactical Shooters out there and an EXCELLENT gunsmith. He has done two rifles for me and I could not be more pleased. Go over to the Sniper's Hide Forum, www.snipershide.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi ) and do a search of KMW and Terry Cross to see what they think of him and his work.
Tell him you want a Surgeon action and an MTU contoured Kreiger 1:11.25 twist barrel in 308 26" long with a A-5 McMillan stock with GAP cammo pattern/color. You will be able to vary the weight of the rifle by the fill that McMillan uses in the stock. Also, get both 5 and 10 shot magazines from him and if you want a Harris notched legs bipod, have he supply it with his pod lock. Use Badger rings and have him lap them in for you at the time of the build. I supplied my scope so he used it at break in and testing for accuracy.
The ones he built for me, using a Remington 700 action because I wanted back-up iron sites, test shot in the .2's with FGGM 168 gr. It is also great with the Sierra SMK 175 gr bullets which is the bullet you will need for 1000 yards. This gun will shoot both tactical and F-Class Match's well,shoot the F-TR class,F-class Target Rifle - F does not stand for Factory by the way) using either a bipod or bag for the front. This will keep you from shooting in direct competition with with the race F-Class guns and 308 is a great caliber due to so much information available about it.
George Toney
Tell him you want a Surgeon action and an MTU contoured Kreiger 1:11.25 twist barrel in 308 26" long with a A-5 McMillan stock with GAP cammo pattern/color. You will be able to vary the weight of the rifle by the fill that McMillan uses in the stock. Also, get both 5 and 10 shot magazines from him and if you want a Harris notched legs bipod, have he supply it with his pod lock. Use Badger rings and have him lap them in for you at the time of the build. I supplied my scope so he used it at break in and testing for accuracy.
The ones he built for me, using a Remington 700 action because I wanted back-up iron sites, test shot in the .2's with FGGM 168 gr. It is also great with the Sierra SMK 175 gr bullets which is the bullet you will need for 1000 yards. This gun will shoot both tactical and F-Class Match's well,shoot the F-TR class,F-class Target Rifle - F does not stand for Factory by the way) using either a bipod or bag for the front. This will keep you from shooting in direct competition with with the race F-Class guns and 308 is a great caliber due to so much information available about it.
George Toney
PJ said:
I think the article you are referring to is George's from GAP. He wrote on on an ultralight M40A3. He was trying to build it as light as possible and still be true to spec. He used a titanium receiver, alloy scope base and rings, a carbon fiber A-4 stock and a deep fluted barrel. I think it came in around 13-14lbs. Much lighter than the standard M40A3 which is over 18lbs.
My rifle is:
Surgeon Tactical Receiver -- www.surgeonrifles.com
22" Mike Rock barrel with the M24 taper -- no flutes
Light fill McMillan A-5 with adjustable LOP and thumbwheel adjust cheekrest
Badger DBM trigger guard with AICS mags
US Optics SN-3 in Badger rings
My rifle comes in around 14lbs. My previous point was that the "edge" style stocks are intended for guys who need the weight savings to stay under comp limits. Is the added expense worth it for half a pound? If yes then I say go for it, but this is the reason why I didn't.
When it comes to getting it built, check with a few smiths to see what their price and wait are. Terry has been running a long wait 2-4 months after he gets the parts, but he does do great work. GAP is pretty quick once you get all the parts in -- usually 2 weeks or less. There are others to check with too. The stock will take the longest so I would get it ordered right away. If you have a smith in mind, most of them get a discount on the stock from McMillan and will pass it along so make sure to ask. Most of the smiths will keep a number of barrels on hand and they won't put a bad one on. I have had Lilja, Kreiger, Mike Rock, and Schneider barrels and they have all shot well. As far as length goes, you don't gain much past 24" in a custom barrel in 308 so I would consider that the longest I would go -- I know palma barrels are longer, but that is for a different reason. In most custom barrels you can hit the high accuracy node in a 22" barrel without using hot loads. Just because you can go faster out of a longer barrel doesn't mean you really gain anything.
Good luck with the build,
Greg
sf340driver,
I agree with the barrel. I'm thinking something about 24".
A krieger mtu fluted maybe a 1in 10 or 1in11 inch twist. I'm thinking
bullets weighing no more then 175. As far as smith goes i don't know
yet as i'll be doing this over sometime as money becomes available.
I'm thinking of getting parts then shipping them to the smith for final
assembling.
I agree with the barrel. I'm thinking something about 24".
A krieger mtu fluted maybe a 1in 10 or 1in11 inch twist. I'm thinking
bullets weighing no more then 175. As far as smith goes i don't know
yet as i'll be doing this over sometime as money becomes available.
I'm thinking of getting parts then shipping them to the smith for final
assembling.
PJ, I would work with the smith you pick as to parts as they usually have experience with certain parts and likes/doslikes of certain ones. Also, I would order the McMillan stock ASAP as they take a while to get. Some smiths have a deal going with McMillan and can get the stocks sooner than you can.
I have found that Tery Cross modifies the McMillan stock for an adjustable cheekpiece rather than use the McMillan one.
Here is an image,I hope) of my latest Terry Cross rifle showing his work and his cheekpiece. Also this is the GAP cammo pattern that McMillan does as well as the floorplate with magazines. Notice his work on the rear iron sight attachment.
George
I have found that Tery Cross modifies the McMillan stock for an adjustable cheekpiece rather than use the McMillan one.
Here is an image,I hope) of my latest Terry Cross rifle showing his work and his cheekpiece. Also this is the GAP cammo pattern that McMillan does as well as the floorplate with magazines. Notice his work on the rear iron sight attachment.
George
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