Extreme Powders

[dawe11]

Have seen several articles that write about "Extreme" powders that are less sensitive to swings in temp.
Is there a listing of some kind for these powders? If not can any one tell me the ratings for the following powers.
H Benchmark, H 322, Winchester 748, Alliant RL 10X, H 4895, VV N135 or 140, H Varget and Alliant RL 15.

 

[ronemus]

Extreme is a trademark for a series of Hodgdon stick powders; you can find detailed information on their web site.

 

[mikecr]

I don't have a link so this is heresay. But I read results online of testing done that showed IMR actually less temperature sensitive than Hodgdon's 'Extreme'.
My impression was Extreme Hype, and so I was saddened later when Hodgdon bought IMR.

I don't know if any of it's for real

 

[ReedG]

I'm as prejudiced as they come -- I love Hodgdon powders and as yet have found no reason to use any others.

I think the stability of 6BR and .223 loads I have developed using H322, Benchmark and Varget in temperatures ranging from 20F to 90F are amazing. The use of H4198 in the 30BR has made preloading for competition almost common practice.

There is lots of experimentation going on in accuracy shooting these days. Great equipment, a wide range of powders, primers, cases, etc. have made it possible to take reloading and shooting to another level in just the past few years. The Internet has made access to and sharing of info,both bad and good) much easier. It's a great time to be burning powder!

 

[Preacher]

RL-15 is know to be as non temp sensitive as any of them are from what I've heard over the years.....

 

[jb1000br]

be nice to have some HARD DATA in this thread

JB

 

[Michaelvoigt1]

be nice to have some HARD DATA in this thread

JB

From the Hodgdon website

Extreme Velocity Spread
For Temperatures Between

0 - 125 degrees
H4831sc----- 10fps
AA3100---- 113fps
IMR4831--- 127fps
VV560----- 121fps
Re22-------- 75fps

Cartridge: 300 Win. Mag.
Case: W-W
Primer: WLRM
180 gr. Sierra Boat Tail SP

 

[mikecr]

Found one test pretty quick:
http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Pressure%20Factors.pdf

His testing also showed that IMR4350 is cooler/slower than H4350. QL shows this as well, and IMR is a better choice for my 26wssm all the way around.
I don't know what '4350' means. Seems dangerous to have two different 4350 powders out there. And now that Hodgdon has them both, I do not trust either at all.

I've had my dealings with Varget variances from lot to lot in the past. So I'm happy to skirt around Hodgdon offerings when choosing powder. But I know they're just right, for some cartridge/barrel combos.

 

[tightneck]

The only hard data I have involves VV powders. They are almost certain to be unobtainable for about 6 months out of the year.

 

[amamnn]

I have to agree with the "extreme" hype. I tried some of the powders now labeled "extreme" long before this extreme label was being applied to everything from snowboards to soft drinks. The only extreme I could see in the whole bunch was that Varget was one of the most extremely density inconsistent stick powders I ever used. Hodgon makes some powders I like and use, but I've never seen any evidence that they were less temperature sensitive than comparable powders.

 

[BillK]

Temperature/heat is a function of everything that burns. The extreme thing is a gimmick. ALL powders burn rates speed up as the temperature goes up. It is all basic science!!!

 

[mysticplayer]

I have been using Hodgdon powders for many years for both hunting and target shooting. I always preload and have not had any issue with accuracy or drop changes over a wide temp range.

I use alot of H4350 and H4831SC. I have also used Benchmark, Varget, H50BMG. Just started H1000 and Retumbo. Stopped using old gen H322 when I sold my 6BR many years back,yep, should never have sold it).

I do alot of LR shooting and have not had to adjust my drop table from summer to winter at ranges out past 1000m. That is stable enough for me.

Jerry

 

[jb1000br]

Anyone have hard evidence to prove it is only "HYPE" either?

JB

 

[aJR]

Hi all, Most of the Hogdgon range is made by the ADI people in Australia, there is no mention of Extreme on any of the products sold over here .. I think they have the hype about temp changes,Bla Bla,just like all the other manufactures accross the world have .. But no extreme stuff mentioned,hey dude..JR..Jeff Rogers

 

[rhino]

This is what confuses me about seeing that data.

Isn't cold air densier and hence wouldn't your velocity drop off irregarless, okay your shooting over a chronograph 20 feet from the bore, but also if the powder is cold doesn't it take a "little more unoof" to get it burning?

From what I understand Hogden's coating makes the powder burn at a more regulated temperature.

The trade off is the coatings from batch to batch along with lot differenes really makes it a pain in the arse when you switch lots of EXTREME powder.

I use VIN N560. I have a load and look at the weather report and shoot tests as close to competition temp as possible. Since your basically shooting in the 65-90 degree range here in the Northeast I really haven't seen any difference in my goupings.

If I was dropped in deathvalley and I did my reloading workups in the Artic I suppose I would see a "bigger" diffrence. However I don't see 25 degrees more or less bieng that big a problem.

Your mileage may vary...please if you have any diferent expierences please share.

RHINOUT!

 

[mikecr]

Someone who has a cold bore load worked up with Hodgdon, including velocities, as shot in warmer weather, and a cut rifled barrel, could go out now, setup a chrono and see if there is a 1.2fps/degF change...........................................................Anyone?

I'm ashamed to say that I haven't with my current rifles. Perhaps someone over at SnipersHide has. Well I'm sure someone there has.

I think many shooters fighting for Hodgdon, normally shoot hot bore groups where any other powder would do just as well regardless of external temps.
Theres no question that folks are satisfied with Hodgdon powder performance. But until shown to be so, and given that the only source of this temp stability claim is from Hodgdon,who hasn't proved it), I aleast suspect it's hype,a sugar coated compromise). When convinced otherwise, I'll be as impressed as anyone. But I'm not one making any claims about it till then.

 

[Medic505]

I dug up this old thread just to see if I could get XRT to bite...

I did learn a couple things. RL-15 isn't temperature sensitive. VV powders were still hit and miss on availability and Extreme powders are a gimmick.

Interesting how views have changed in 12 years. Oh. and snipers hide was around in 2007? who'da thunk it.

 

[fyrewall]

Other than to mention my favorite powders I cannot comment on this stuff because I have not been able to read or possibly it has not been explained to me what makes a powder "temperature insensitive" Some of Hodgdon's are " extreme", some of Alliant's are "consistent across temperature extremes". I guess this stuff is "proprietary". Not being a chemist I would lots of help to understand this stuff. Reading into the Hornady 4DOF ballistic calculator stuff they get into listing a bunch of powders to be considered.

All I can guess is some process occurs to provide "temperature insensitivity". My favorite powders are IMR8208, H4350, H1000, Re23, 4000MR, H414. Believing what I read, when it is really hot like in the mid 90's and more, IMR 8208, H4350, Re23, and H1000 are selected. IMR8208 has proven to be a great all temp powder and is useful, where it fits, as indicated in the Hodgdon manual. Keep the ammo in the shade.

Can anybody out there name an extruded powder made in the U.S.?

 

[xswanted]

I’m in the camp of shoot what works well in your rifle.

Shoot it in lots of conditions and see why happens. Use a chronograph when doing this.

I don’t have scientific data on a lot of the powders that claim to be temp sensitive but most of it, in my opinion, is a marketing technique.

I was able to try IMR 4350 from my 260 this winter, at -19 degrees Fahrenheit. Shells were outside for roughly 20 minutes prior to firing.

I fired 10 shots for an avg velocity, measured by a Labradar at 2676.

I looked back through my notes from last summer and at at 88 degrees Fahrenheit it chronoed 2678.

In my books that covers your bases for temp swings. That’s 107 degrees of temp change from extreme cold to hot and basically no difference in speed.

I checked it again 2 days later at 0 degrees and had an avg of 2686.

Fairly consistent overall.

 

[Bbear]

I'm in the same camp as xswanted. I shoot what works. Being in Texas, I've noticed a bit more sensitivity than some do as our temps may range from the 20's during hunting season up to over 100 degrees in the summer. I do notice some changes in velocity with most powders but some are better than others. The Hodgden Extreme series (4451, 7977 etc) seem to do pretty well but even they see some rather good-sized changes in velocity above 90 degrees or so.
The sensitivity varies according to the cartridge the powder is used in though.