Experiment with your rifle technique.

[orkan]

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[CharlieNC]

How did you know the exact scenerio I have been going through for the last year since purchasing a 457? You are spot on with what I have been learning, and I'm finally getting closer to closing out the frustration of a 22!

 

[Quickoz]

Yeah Ive spent the day learning the same thing. Very interesting. My Anschutz is quite particular in the way it wants to be shot. Its annoying. My Centrefires are much simpler. I love my SAUM

 

[Topwater]

Good video. I also have a CZ 457 MTR that is particular about the amount of pressure exerted by how I lay my left thumb over the grip. My Anschutz dosen’t exhibit this situation. You’ve made me consider the possibility that this is an eccentricity particular to my rifle. Thanks for the video.

 

[JEFFPPC]

How did you know the exact scenerio I have been going through for the last year since purchasing a 457? You are spot on with what I have been learning, and I'm finally getting closer to closing out the frustration of a 22!

Very interesting and important topic. It's most often ignored since there is no gadget to sell you thus no money to be made. Learn what your rifle likes, experiment, and you will be ahead of the curve.

 

[epc308]

Every rifle is unique on the bench. I shot my CZ452 with a 2-7 Leupold at 50yds in a 22BR league a few years back. That summer with that rifle taught me more about bench technique than any other rifle I have ever fired. I learned that it couldn’t be forced into position. It had to be lying all but perfectly on the rest and rear bag for windage, so the only movement required was a gentle squeeze for elevation. If I tried to force it sideways for windage, even a little bit, I would drop a point or two. I slowly increased my scores to the point I out shot my partner, much to his dismay. The memory of that technique let me win the shoot off at an 85yd egg shoot using the same rifle against 2 serious competitors, one with a M37 Remington topped with a 15 Lyman STS, and the other with a Martini International topped with a 25x Weaver. My one miss of the day was when I didn’t get that near perfect windage on the bags. Lesson learned, again.

 

[shutinlead]

Orkan,
Thanks for running this video, it's a reminder for something I have a tendency to forget. I dabble in a discipline a little different than yours but it's all relevant. The Schuetzen bug hit me a few years back and I dove down that rabbit hole head first rarely ever coming up for air. My rifles differ somewhat, being of vintage design like Winchester low walls, high walls, Ballards, Stevens, etc. but the same rules apply.
My winter project this year was a Ballard built from a casting and a breech block assembly of my own design. The maiden trip to the indoor range when it was finally shooting showed some promise. It was built with intention of being an offhand rifle, but testing to find the ammo it favors was done from the bench. Multiple trips and a substantial variety of ammo sent down the pipe narrowed the options. What I discovered is this thing really likes to be very lightly caressed, small amount of shoulder contact, virtually no cheek weld, very light touch on the trigger, and the second null point on the barrel as a point of contact, try duplicating all this in the offhand position...
Initial testing was done with a scope but once the flavor of ammo was picked, the scope was removed and iron was installed. I struggled maintaining groups of any consequence until someone made mention of flavor of contact a rifle prefers. Consistency of grouping became very apparent then.
I shoot a bit, but as age creeps up on me I realize I'm well past my prime of being anything but mediocre in the competitive world and bragging will soon become a comment like, "I hit every target... at least once"
Here's sharing a little, with the rigidity in this rifle - the type of action, the barrel weight, the stock weight and design, I've had a tough time believing that this rifle gets so emotional with the slightest amount of contact... Target one illustrates some of the frustration, 60' indoors they should have been one hole. I had several targets shot with the different pressures applied - target two is kind of a summation of what was seen when varying holds were made. Going forward, this rifle has been entertaining to say the least to shoot, when the weather clears up and the spring winds wane a little I hope to spend some time at my 100 and 200 yd benches.


Thanks again for sharing the info.
Regards,
Greg

 

[epc308]

Orkan,
Thanks for running this video, it's a reminder for something I have a tendency to forget. I dabble in a discipline a little different than yours but it's all relevant. The Schuetzen bug hit me a few years back and I dove down that rabbit hole head first rarely ever coming up for air. My rifles differ somewhat, being of vintage design like Winchester low walls, high walls, Ballards, Stevens, etc. but the same rules apply.
My winter project this year was a Ballard built from a casting and a breech block assembly of my own design. The maiden trip to the indoor range when it was finally shooting showed some promise. It was built with intention of being an offhand rifle, but testing to find the ammo it favors was done from the bench. Multiple trips and a substantial variety of ammo sent down the pipe narrowed the options. What I discovered is this thing really likes to be very lightly caressed, small amount of shoulder contact, virtually no cheek weld, very light touch on the trigger, and the second null point on the barrel as a point of contact, try duplicating all this in the offhand position...
Initial testing was done with a scope but once the flavor of ammo was picked, the scope was removed and iron was installed. I struggled maintaining groups of any consequence until someone made mention of flavor of contact a rifle prefers. Consistency of grouping became very apparent then.
I shoot a bit, but as age creeps up on me I realize I'm well past my prime of being anything but mediocre in the competitive world and bragging will soon become a comment like, "I hit every target... at least once"
Here's sharing a little, with the rigidity in this rifle - the type of action, the barrel weight, the stock weight and design, I've had a tough time believing that this rifle gets so emotional with the slightest amount of contact... Target one illustrates some of the frustration, 60' indoors they should have been one hole. I had several targets shot with the different pressures applied - target two is kind of a summation of what was seen when varying holds were made. Going forward, this rifle has been entertaining to say the least to shoot, when the weather clears up and the spring winds wane a little I hope to spend some time at my 100 and 200 yd benches.
View attachment 1178715 View attachment 1178716 View attachment 1178718 View attachment 1178719

Thanks again for sharing the info.
Regards,
Greg

Gorgeous rifle. Thanks for sharing. I dabble in old single shots too. Very entertaining, sometimes frustrating, always enjoyable.
You mentioned a breechblock of your own design. Hammerless? I also see close coupled DST. Yours too?

 

[shutinlead]

Gorgeous rifle. Thanks for sharing. I dabble in old single shots too. Very entertaining, sometimes frustrating, always enjoyable.
You mentioned a breechblock of your own design. Hammerless? I also see close coupled DST. Yours too?

Thanks,
yes it is my design, hammerless striker. I saw a photo of one, then I handled one but no one would let me take theirs apart!!!??? Imagine that... I saw and studied the Freund brother's and a Worn design but they are more of internal hammer than a striker. Mine is a true striker, sear engaged, when yes, the triggers are copied and then modified from the original Win low wall close coupled design, impact the sear and release the striker. Started out in SolidWorks and began drawing and then modeling pieces and parts until things came together fitting and working within the given amount of space. I've done a few posts about this on other forums and I may start a post on this forum about it. I don't mean to hijack Orkan's thread so I'll stop here before I get carried away, sorry.
Greg

 

[orkan]

Very cool rifle!

 

[redrockranger]

Every rifle is unique on the bench. I shot my CZ452 with a 2-7 Leupold at 50yds in a 22BR league a few years back. That summer with that rifle taught me more about bench technique than any other rifle I have ever fired. I learned that it couldn’t be forced into position. It had to be lying all but perfectly on the rest and rear bag for windage, so the only movement required was a gentle squeeze for elevation. If I tried to force it sideways for windage, even a little bit, I would drop a point or two. I slowly increased my scores to the point I out shot my partner, much to his dismay. The memory of that technique let me win the shoot off at an 85yd egg shoot using the same rifle against 2 serious competitors, one with a M37 Remington topped with a 15 Lyman STS, and the other with a Martini International topped with a 25x Weaver. My one miss of the day was when I didn’t get that near perfect windage on the bags. Lesson learned, again.

What type of rest are you using ? Thanks

 

[orkan]

Schuetzen is all offhand, no support or slings, if I recall correctly.

 

[shutinlead]

Thank you for the kind remark.
Yes, Schuetzen is originally all offhand, as Harry Pope said, "stand on your two hind legs and shoot like a man". The other thing is most distances for the Schuetzen game are either 100 or 200 yards. Many of these clubs now shoot or have a bench rest game included in their line-up. Many of the competitors are also reaching the age where holding the rifles by themselves is next to impossible so they'll shoot standing but a barrel support is allowed... I don't qualify for that but I'm also 30 years younger than those folks... 90 year olds? Whatever keeps them in the game. I tried a barrel support once offhand thinking OK this makes it easy, it's all relevant, these old boys shoot a ten shot sub MOA group at 200. It sends me back to my case mumbling...

 

[epc308]

What type of rest are you using ? Thanks

I made my rest out of a #60 chain sprocket with the teeth machined off and an oddball castoff for the master spud in the center. I modified it to the current state a few years back to have a fine thread elevation wheel for final vertical adjustments and a slide fit on the other part for coarse adjustments. At the same time I decided the rust finish had to go and had it powder coated in mid 50s Chevy colors. I have a couple different with bags for the cradle. The rear bag is probably 25 years old, could use more sand bc the leather is so soft and has settled from many range days over the years. It isn’t a space age, multi adjustable setup, micro fine, but I’ve learned it’s quirks and it works for me.