Experiences with liability insurance?

[dcali]

Title says it all - anyone have any good or bad liability insurance experiences specific to the firearms industry? Recommended companies to check out?

 

[tenring]

I am unable to make recommendations. From my lengthy experience in handling insurance liability claims, I can tell you that if you are considering reloading for profit, or gunsmithing, the price is high. In either field you will need manufacturers coverage, as well as completed operations coverage. And, the cost of defense counsel for these lawsuits factors into the price also, i.e., if you are sued, your carrier bears the cost of payment to him.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

My experience is similar to lighting a pile of cash on fire. Luckily I have never had to use it. PM me for details if you want to use it as a base line to shop around.

 

[JRS]

Talk to your auto insurance carrier about an Umbrella Liability Policy.

 

[kendog]

Talk to your auto insurance carrier about an Umbrella Liability Policy.

Alex Wheeler pretty much nailed it. Would an Umbrella Liability Policy be less expensive than specific gunsmiths insurance? Supposedly the insurance from "NRA Endorsed" Lockton Affinity will cover all attorney costs prior to actual court time. Thankfully never had to use it. Would an Umbrella Policy do that?

 

[dcali]

I think generally, product liability insurance is required, which is priced based on your sales. The more you make, the more they take!

 

[shortgrass]

If you approach any other insurance company about insurance to cover your gunsmithing activities, you will probably get a flat out NO!. Just ask the insurance company that covers your house and vehicles and find out for yourself. When the agent with the insurance company that carries my home owners and vehicles found out I had a small business they wanted to quote insurance for it,,,,,, until they found out it was firearms related. They are scared to death to write a policy that might have as much risk as gunsmithing or ammo manufacturing. There are specific insurance companies that cover gunsmiths. The insurance offered through the NRA or The National Shooting Sports Foundation is probably going to be the lowest cost, but it doesn't hurt to shop the others. Be prepared to submit lots of information. A written copy of your companies "policies and procedures" and your education concerning the activity you are applying for insurance for can do nothing but help you in the long run. Expect a visit from an insurance examiner/investigator from the insurance company that is writing the policy for you. Read the policy carefully and ask questions if you need to. One of the best things you can do is make your company a LLC or incorporate. It'd be best to consult an attorney about doing so, to understand the legalities and tax obligations of doing it. You can incorporate or become a LLC without having an attorney/tax advisor do it for you just by contacting the Secretary of States office in the state where your business is located.

 

[tobnpr]

An "umbrella" policy is EXCESS coverage that kicks in, in the event of a claim exceeding the policy limits of the underlying policy(s).
If you don't have CGL/Products etc there is no way an umbrella policy could be written.

Suggest speaking with an atty re: ways to mitigate/limit liability through the business structure.

 

[Ggmac]

If you approach any other insurance company about insurance to cover your gunsmithing activities, you will probably get a flat out NO!. Just ask the insurance company that covers your house and vehicles and find out for yourself. When the agent with the insurance company that carries my home owners and vehicles found out I had a small business they wanted to quote insurance for it,,,,,, until they found out it was firearms related. They are scared to death to write a policy that might have as much risk as gunsmithing or ammo manufacturing. There are specific insurance companies that cover gunsmiths. The insurance offered through the NRA or The National Shooting Sports Foundation is probably going to be the lowest cost, but it doesn't hurt to shop the others. Be prepared to submit lots of information. A written copy of your companies "policies and procedures" and your education concerning the activity you are applying for insurance for can do nothing but help you in the long run. Expect a visit from an insurance examiner/investigator from the insurance company that is writing the policy for you. Read the policy carefully and ask questions if you need to. One of the best things you can do is make your company a LLC or incorporate. It'd be best to consult an attorney about doing so, to understand the legalities and tax obligations of doing it. You can incorporate or become a LLC without having an attorney/tax advisor do it for you just by contacting the Secretary of States office in the state where your business is located.

Also , don't be the only person listed on a LLC , it can be pierced .
After you close shop , for me , I still keep an umbrella policy based on my assets value . Talk to an attorney, one that has FFL backround or firearms knowledge, he /she could direct you to appropriate procedures for protecting your assets .
All the knowledge here is good but we're all different, different states , backround, and assets .

 

[dcali]

Also , don't be the only person listed on a LLC , it can be pierced .
After you close shop , for me , I still keep an umbrella policy based on my assets value . Talk to an attorney, one that has FFL backround or firearms knowledge, he /she could direct you to appropriate procedures for protecting your assets .
All the knowledge here is good but we're all different, different states , backround, and assets .

For those interested in the details on how to keep your nose clean, there's an interesting article on this here: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jayadk...lcs-veil-pierced-in-greenhunter/#528b47f22941

 

[shortgrass]

According to that article, a corporation can be 'pierced' also. So, it's just another of those 'risks' you assume when you start up a business. #1 Know what the heck your doing, so there's not a basis for a suit!

 

[dcali]

Any entity can be "pierced" if your'e abusing the law. Basically, the courts are able to call bullshit on your gaming of the system.

 

[chuckshooter]

Title says it all - anyone have any good or bad liability insurance experiences specific to the firearms industry? Recommended companies to check out?

I know you asked about firearms insurance related experience, but I can give you some general info coming from a guy who has been sued more times than I can remember. mine is related to the home building industry but anyway here you go, the first question you need to find out, is your state a joint and severe liability state, if you are 1/10th of 1% at fault, you could be forced to pay 100% of the claim.. 2nd It's not about right and wrong, it's about money, you can do everything right and still have that one di*khead that comes after you.. you can't be thinking "but I didn't do anything wrong". 3rd. do you have an indemnity and liability release form that you make all customers sign, if not, why not. brunos website has a good example on their shipping and return page. you would be surprised how many websites have indemnity and liability release's hidden somewhere that the customer agrees to by using their website. Insurance is a gamble, lawyers will tell you that you can limit your liability with either a corp. or LLC, but if you are sued without insurance or your insurance doesn't cover that particular claim do you really want to bankrupt your business in order to "limit my liability". I can't tell you how many times I have received a letter "denial of claim coverage" my opinion is you can either stay small, no insurance, make everyone sign an indemnity and liability release form, keep your fingers crossed.. or go big, get the insurance, make sure it has continuing coverage after you stop working, read and understand all you can about the actual policy and then hope that the laws governing your situation don't change on you, because for me it was some judge that decided on a case (case law)that changed everything and it was retroactive.
anyway that's my opinion on liability insurance. good luck