expectations from a factory rifle?

[chevytruck_83]

I was curious what everyone thinks is about the best you can expect from a factory rifle like a savage model 12 223 with 1-7 twist. I'm working up hand loads and thus far for my ability and it being a stock rifle I'm happy. What does everyone think is about the best a gun like this with hand loads can shoot. Right now off bags I'm managing 1.75 inch at 200 with variable wind gusts. Looking for generally what can be expected. Naturally every gun will vary to some extent. I've been using 75 hornady hpbt and a Max. A Max with rl15 for my beat results. Next load is some nosler 77 hpbt with 24.5 varget. Reading about 1.5 at 1000 makes me feel a little bit pathetic

 

[jbpmidas]

I have a Model 12 LRPV Savage. With 80 A-Max's and Varget, I've shot a few .6" groups at 200. Mine is a 7 twist as well. I didn't get my best groups until we tuned the torque on the 3 action screws.

 

[chevytruck_83]

Wow. Good to hear. That's y I asked. Guess its worth trying more loads. Mine is a bvss. What load works best for you if you don't mind me asking? Charge and length. I'm trying the nosler custom comp 77 bulltes because I found them 1000 for 160.00. I figure they are worth a shot. I must admit. At first glance they look rough on comparison to hornady bullets.

 

[DennisH]

I didn't get my best groups until we tuned the torque on the 3 action screws.

Midas, You noticed that big of a difference after torque tuning the action screws?

Just wondering, Lots of discussions on this procedure!

Dennis

 

[DennisH]

Chevy,

There is a person who shoot his 7 twist in 600 yd competitions and does fantastic with his. I believe his name is "RickS" or "Rstewart". I will find out and see if he will share his load with you! I shoot with him all the time, he does wonders with his 223.

Good Gun

UPDATE: his name is RStewart , look him up, tell him I told you to contact him. I am sure he will share some info on the 223 with a 7 twist!

 

[nra-for-life]

well, i dont have a savage lrpv, but i do own a very large amount of factory rifles...remington 700's, win 70's, tikkas, weatherby's, rugers' etc etc. all stock, no modifications. I donate heavily at gun banquets (especially NRA) so i have accumulated quite a collection of various rifles and random calibers.

IMO a factory rifle that is sub MOA is definatly better than average. Probably the best I've personally seen from a factory gun is 3/4" average with accasional 3/8" three shot groups at 100 yards. For a factory gun to be shooting 1.75" groups at 200 yards is good.

 

[DennisH]

For a factory gun to be shooting 1.75" groups at 200 yards is good.

A lot of Savages will do it straight out of the box!

 

[chevytruck_83]

At this point I'm extatic about this gun. Its on par with my rem 700 308 but this has more features ex button rifling pilliar bedding target crown.. that would be awesome. Dennis. I'm still relatively new to reloading. So anytime I can acquire knowledge from a more experienced shooter I'm all ears. Thanks

 

[nra-for-life]

For a factory gun to be shooting 1.75" groups at 200 yards is good.

A lot of Savages will do it straight out of the box!

Yup I only have a few savages... But all of them shoot better than the average for a factory rig. If I were to buy a factory gun it would be a savage or a tikka, best chance of having a good shooter for the money spent IMO...I just wish these guns had more aftermarket options available like the 700.

 

[chevytruck_83]

I was comparing the savage model 12 line to the rem700. The quality out of the box hands down goes to Savage. Better stock, barrel and most important shoots better. I will say on the rem 700s I have owned. the finish is terrible. They are so prone to rusting its rediculous. Buy stock in rem oil if you get one. It seems that Remington has gone the way of relying on its reputation and is putting junk on their actions. Sure you can build up a great gun from their actions. That's not the route I want to go. Let it be known that I am no expert. So these are just opinions. I do love my 700 I still own and my Clarence Hammonds built 700 in 6ppc. The savage gives you more of thar warm fuzzy feeling like dam. This is really a nice gun. Not. Dam. My gun is rusting like crazy. Wonder if the rifling is rusting as well....

 

[jbpmidas]

I didn't get my best groups until we tuned the torque on the 3 action screws.

Midas, You noticed that big of a difference after torque tuning the action screws?

Just wondering, Lots of discussions on this procedure!

Dennis

Accuracy would fluctuate with different torques settings. I settled on the torque value that gave me consistent accuracy. One value put 3 into 1/4" at 200, but the other two shots really opened up the group. I'll allow one flyer as shooter error, but not 2!

 

[jbpmidas]

24.5 Varget under 77SMK's shoots 1/4" at 100 and about 1" at 200.

24.8 Varget is what I settled on under 80 A-Max's. I haven't shot them at 100 but have multiple .6, 5 shot groups with it. The worst it has shot was 1.5" when I was torque testing. I seat them -.010.

 

[BoydAllen]

Even with factory pillars, IMO you will never see what a rifle is capable of without bedding the receiver. Also, testing loads at 200 when the wind is gusting is to a large degree a waste of time. It is like testing a car on a muddy road. Do you have anything in front of you that tells you what the wind is doing, at various distances, between you and the target? Also, what sort of bench and rest/bag setup are you using? Have you adjusted the trigger? What is its pull weight? I guess my point is that accuracy has a lot of parts and pieces. Good luck with your project. I have always found Savages to be much better than average for accuracy.

 

[chevytruck_83]

By no means am I testing therifles absolute accuracy. I guess I'm testing real world for my shooting accuracy. I'm not shooting 10 rounds and calling it a good test group. I'm loading 100 rounds or so shooting 10 shot groups and averaging the averages. Your absolutely right and I understand that.

 

[BoydAllen]

In a world where shooters tend to report "wallet groups" as how a rifle shoots "all day long", I find your rigorous approach refreshing. On a day when the wind is at its best, and you are in top form, what sort of five shot groups do you get at 100 yards ?

 

[chevytruck_83]

Well today I got out and shot the recommended nosler with 24.5 varget at col of 2.281 and shot ten shot groups of .5 wide.75 tall. This was pretty much all day lo.b. with one or two groups having 1-1.25 width (flyers)Weather channel said 30-50mph gusts with 20 MPH sustained. I cannot confirm what it was for sure but i had to tape the edges all the way around the paper target or it would rip off. It was to nice otherwise not to shoot. This was at 100. At 200 I only shot 1 ten shot group which suffered because wind beyond the 100 backstop was relentless. However I still got 1.75 circular. These were fired prone off bipod. Sure it may not have been a day to tell me exactly what the gun and loads can do but it sure was fun. Having trouble posting pics. Sorry.

 

[jbpmidas]

I'd say that's excellent in that amount of wind!

 

[chevytruck_83]

Thanks Boyd Allen. Ill never be the best bench, prone or whatever shooter. Nor will I be the best hand loader. So I like to shoot in a way that I will myself improve along with load development. I try to compensate for shooter error by shear volume of rounds fired averaged out. Maybe not the best method but its my method. Lately its been windy every day I can shoot. So Unfortunately I can't do these loads justice. Hopefully I will get a nice calm day soon. I will then test these loads one against the other. Yea. Its one of the worst days I've ever shot in. Had to squint to keep blowing dirt out of my eyes. Keeps the range pretty empty though so ill take it.

 

[Delaware_Ken]

I have the Savage 223 1/7 twist in the F/TR version. Three weeks ago I took it to a 600 yard BR match and won Factory Class in both score and group. One of my 5 shot aggregates was 2.5" and my score was 181/200. It was a perfect day for shooting, overcast with very little wind. Needless to say I'm very happy with it. I'm shooting the 80 GR Bergers with 24.4 GR of Varget .020 off the lands.

Ken

 

[chevytruck_83]

That's great. Thanks for the info. The ftr model is nice. I was fortunate/unfortunate whichever you like to think. That my 1/9 twist barrel was bad out of the box and had to be replaced. Savage willingly put there 1/7 in its place free of charge. Ended up with a great gun. Ill have to try. 020 off the lands. I loaded various lengths and 2.281 seemed best thus far. But if it works for someone else that obviously knows how to shoot I'm willing enough to try.