Expander mandrel help

[CatShooter]

I will issue a strong warning against questioning anything that Catshooter posts. He is truly one of the Certified experts on this board.

Expert or not, the fact is donuts do exist and I have encountered it in exactly that situation. It is not always the culpit, but it should not be dismissed as a cause unless you know for sure it is not there.

It is easy to dismiss donuts as a cause in this case - donuts are at the end of the neck, under the shoulder. When you run a smooth cylinder (bullet or mandrel) into the neck of a case with a donut, it runs smoothly until it hits the donut and it is like hitting a bump in the road (which is exactly what it is)... if a donut were the cause, then the question would have been worded that the mandrel slides smoothly, then get rough when it gets at the end of the neck...

.. but in this post, the roughness is through out the whole neck, so it is NOT a donut (unless the donut runs from the mouth of the case, to the end of the neck, and that would be one hellova donut!!

 

[jelrod1]

I'm suddenly craving Krispy Kreme.

 

[snakepit]

I'm suddenly craving Krispy Kreme.

The Krispy Kreme Doughnut is best when it has just been Annealed and is still hot.

 

[jlow]

It is easy to dismiss donuts as a cause in this case - donuts are at the end of the neck, under the shoulder. When you run a smooth cylinder (bullet or mandrel) into the neck of a case with a donut, it runs smoothly until it hits the donut and it is like hitting a bump in the road (which is exactly what it is)... if a donut were the cause, then the question would have been worded that the mandrel slides smoothly, then get rough when it gets at the end of the neck...

.. but in this post, the roughness is through out the whole neck, so it is NOT a donut (unless the donut runs from the mouth of the case, to the end of the neck, and that would be one hellova donut!!

Hmmmm.... I've gone back and re-read the OP's posts 3 times but did not get the part where he might have said that "the roughness is through out the whole neck".....

 

[CatShooter]

It is easy to dismiss donuts as a cause in this case - donuts are at the end of the neck, under the shoulder. When you run a smooth cylinder (bullet or mandrel) into the neck of a case with a donut, it runs smoothly until it hits the donut and it is like hitting a bump in the road (which is exactly what it is)... if a donut were the cause, then the question would have been worded that the mandrel slides smoothly, then get rough when it gets at the end of the neck...

.. but in this post, the roughness is through out the whole neck, so it is NOT a donut (unless the donut runs from the mouth of the case, to the end of the neck, and that would be one hellova donut!!

Hmmmm.... I've gone back and re-read the OP's posts 3 times but did not get the part where he might have said that "the roughness is through out the whole neck".....

I just reread it and it is clear that it is not smooth and then rough - it is clear that he has tried a lot of things to make it work for him... You are trying to save face and it is not working.

If you want to believe that it is donuts, then be my guest. Try the chocolate glazed ones, this thread keeps sinking lower and lower - it is the classic example of why someone should NOT ask for loading help on the internet.

 

[jlow]

It is easy to dismiss donuts as a cause in this case - donuts are at the end of the neck, under the shoulder. When you run a smooth cylinder (bullet or mandrel) into the neck of a case with a donut, it runs smoothly until it hits the donut and it is like hitting a bump in the road (which is exactly what it is)... if a donut were the cause, then the question would have been worded that the mandrel slides smoothly, then get rough when it gets at the end of the neck...

.. but in this post, the roughness is through out the whole neck, so it is NOT a donut (unless the donut runs from the mouth of the case, to the end of the neck, and that would be one hellova donut!!

Hmmmm.... I've gone back and re-read the OP's posts 3 times but did not get the part where he might have said that "the roughness is through out the whole neck".....

I just reread it and it is clear that it is not smooth and then rough - it is clear that he has tried a lot of things to make it work for him... You are trying to save face and it is not working.

If you want to believe that it is donuts, then be my guest. Try the chocolate glazed ones, this thread keeps sinking lower and lower - it is the classic example of why someone should NOT ask for loading help on the internet.

LOL! I think the shoe is on the other foot! ;D

 

[timeout]

running my brass over an expander mandrel , it never feels smooth

Proper & consistent neck tension is not really achieved with frequent annealing. In fact, it's just the opposite. And annealing will only make matters worse here by causing more difficult expansion.

Really??? Anyone want to purchase a Benchsource cheap?

 

[mikecr]

JVON, how much are you downsizing necks, and with what method?
Also, one reason I dropped K&M and went to Sinclair's turning system, is because K&M turning mandrels and expander were too large to be useful for reloading(without followup resizing & expanding with a better system).
Someone mentioned Sinclair earlier, and with rational sizing and a carbide mandrel, expansion really is smooth as glass.
http://www.sinclairintl.com/reloading-equipment/case-preparation/neck-turning/turning-expander-mandrels/sinclair-carbide-turning-mandrels-prod36422.aspx

 

[Scott Harris]

I use a Dillon 550 and F/L size, run a mandrel, drop powder, and then seat the bullet all in one continuous operation.

After 20,000+ reloads, here are my thoughts on the subject:

1. I don't use any lube: dry or wet. That just adds extra steps, makes a mess and prevents me from immediately dropping powder and seating
2. I use completely clean cases that have been ultrasonically cleaned. This eliminates any build-up of crap on the mandrel that I have to clean.
3. I use a carbide turning mandrel. It is significantly harder and resists scratching and the build up of debris on the mandrel
4. I am careful not to oversize the neck in the first operation by using a neck bushing that takes it down only slightly smaller than the mandrel. Therefore, the mandrel has less work to do. That said, I am currently using a small base 308WIN die which sizes the neck much smaller than the mandrel....has not caused any problems.
5. After annealing, the brass gets sized smaller by the F/L die causing the mandrel to have to work harder .....doesn't cause any problems though.

Good luck,
Scott

 

[Jeff Von Rosenberg]

The only necks I downsize are6-284 from 6.5-284 1 step, but I experience the problem with others. I was using 21st century Mandela but wanted less neck pressure so----- I bought K&M and they are too large (I am trying to turn them down a bit) The 21st century Mandrels work a little smoother. Just got my Benchsource the other day (and my Prometheus II!) and will start annealing and see if that helps. Thanks for all the input. JVON

 

[mikecr]

By downsizing, I meant sizing. how much and how are you sizing these necks that you're expanding?

 

[Jeff Von Rosenberg]

I am taking them .003 below loaded round the sizing up .0015. JVON

 

[mikecr]

And how are you sizing?

 

[A j shooter]

308 I full lenthsize with a bushing 334 then run a pma expander they use to neck up 30 br. Gives me exactly 1ths bullet pull work great. I lube inside neck with dry neck lube. Lot of work but groups good.😜

 

[Jeff Von Rosenberg]

I full legenth size with a size button and bump shoulder at same time then run thru the slightly larger mandrel, I then cut to length with my giraud, turn with my 21st Century neck turning lathe and measure necks,uniform primer pockets ,drill flash holes , then uniform (champher )flash hole. I then use a K&M VLD reamer in case. Vibratory tumble to get oil out,( prior to any ops the we're tumbled in SS pin, dried and annealed with a BenchSource. I then charge with my Prometheus ,and seat bullet, if the are not tight enough I run the Back thru a sizer with smaller bushing load again check my base to ogive length and go like hell!!!!!!

 

[snakepit]

I full legenth size with a size button and bump shoulder at same time then run thru the slightly larger mandrel, I then cut to length with my giraud, turn with my 21st Century neck turning lathe and measure necks,uniform primer pockets ,drill flash holes , then uniform (champher )flash hole. I then use a K&M VLD reamer in case. Vibratory tumble to get oil out,( prior to any ops the we're tumbled in SS pin, dried and annealed with a BenchSource. I then charge with my Prometheus ,and seat bullet, if the are not tight enough I run the Back thru a sizer with smaller bushing load again check my base to ogive length and go like hell!!!!!!

That looks like a 2 nap reloading procedure to me.

 

[Jeff Von Rosenberg]

Too many steps? Trying to be through!

 

[mikecr]

What 'FL sizing' die?
Do you do this before neck turning?
Do you take the necks insides to squeaky clean, and before or after expanding?
How deep is the chamfer reamer cutting down the necks?
Why do you suppose bullet seating would not be 'tight enough'?

 

[Jeff Von Rosenberg]

I use a redding s- die to size and bump shoulder prior to trimming as giraud indexes off shoulder. Yes my cases are clean because I tumble in ss and anneal first. As far as how deep ,I don't champher until after I expand and trim. I do that because griusd trimmer cuts to length and champhers. Because it has to be set up to case dia I expand first.
I later champher with a K&M VLD . As far as too loose, if I can turn the bullet without much effort.