Expander balls...why not remove them?

[Damon555]

I figured out quit a while ago that removing the expander ball was just the ticket to more neck tension. There was no need for a crimp in any of my AR's

 

[46and2]

I figured out quit a while ago that removing the expander ball was just the ticket to more neck tension. There was no need for a crimp in any of my AR's

Be careful, too much neck tension can damage/ distort the bullets while seating, cause run out and cause inconsistent seating depth.
I'd rather see you use a Lee factory Crimp die.

 

[Damon555]

That could very well happen 46.....but to be honest I've shot some bullets that were in terrible shape, beat up, bent, smashed, you name it.....and for some reason they still shot just fine...? At some point in my reloading career I quit even considering neck tension or even runout for that matter....Shoot what comes off the press........I have been very successful shooting varmints and a little paper here and there. Almost 30 years on and I've got the 6XC, 223 AI, 223 Rem 6mmAR, 308 and 204R shooting better than probably 95% of the folks out there could imagine.

 

[markm87]

I figured out quit a while ago that removing the expander ball was just the ticket to more neck tension. There was no need for a crimp in any of my AR's

In my set up, I was getting shavings off of my jackets when I seated bullets once when I forgot to run my neck expander die. I have the dillon carbide 223 sizing die, and it just brings the neck down a little too far to not open back up a little.

As mentioned, I run the LEE FCD set to a mild crimp level.

 

[dttheliman]

No need in a non bushing die either, if you have an appropriate neck dia in the die.

One very specific place where the ball is helpful is reforming brass. I was messing around and made some .222 brass from .223 brass. (I did it in two steps fwiw). The expander ball seems pretty important to keeping the shoulder from collapsing.

And necking down 408 CT to 375 CT get the shape right then adjust with a mandrel , not the mandrill it gets pissed quickly

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I never use an expander that touches the neck. Only a bushing for me.

 

[JMayo]

I've never used either one.
No expander no mandrel.
Bushing die only

 

[Damon555]

That could very well happen 46.....but to be honest I've shot some bullets that were in terrible shape, beat up, bent, smashed, you name it.....and for some reason they still shot just fine...? At some point in my reloading career I quit even considering neck tension or even runout for that matter....Shoot what comes off the press........I have been very successful shooting varmints and a little paper here and there. Almost 30 years on and I've got the 6XC, 223 AI, 223 Rem 6mmAR, 308 and 204R shooting better than probably 95% of the folks out there could imagine.

I bet some of these points are contentious to a few of you..... There are so many little tricks that people use that I've abandoned over the years because they were just too tedious and showed no improvement in my loads. I trust my equipment and abilities.....Runout, neck tension, primer pockets, weight sorting....you name it I've tried it....and eventually stopped. I enjoy the loading process very much but don't go overboard because I enjoy actually shooting even more.

 

[Doug Casner]

If your not shooting benchrest alot of those little tricks dont make much difference in whatever kind of rifle your shooting. Now benchrest , thats a different ballgame. Shoot 25 shots in a .250 in. and that might not get you in the money. Doug

 

[dcali]

You don’t really need it unless your cases are dinged. (Don’t do that). That said, they don’t hurt anything if you turn your necks exactly right for your bushing. But that’s the best case. I usually leave mine off.

 

[Mark611]

I turn my necks and use nothing, but a body die, and a collet mandrel die for my case sizing, never used a bushing die and no intensions of doing so either, I'm happy with the results I get with my set up, 1k or less on the runout, throw the expander ball dies away IMO!!!

 

[whatsupdoc]

I use both Mandrel and Expander ball depending on the cartridge. (Not at the same time)

From my experience using a mandrel seems to help create doughnuts more than using an expander ball. When using a correctly adjusted high position type expander ball, (like the Forster) where as the case is retracted from the die it makes contact with the expander ball before the neck is withdrawn from the neck section of the die. Typically results less than .001 run-out.

The way I set up the F/L non bushing die with a high expander ball is to adjust the expander ball stem so that the ball is way below the case neck.
I then push a case into the die and leave the ram in the up position. I screw the
expander ball stem up until I feel the expander ball make contact with the neck. Then I turn the eppander ball stem three quarters to one turn down moving it away from the case neck and lock the stem.

My Forster expander works in some of my RCBS dies. Give it a try and see what your results are you may be surprised.

 

[WVRJ]

I've been getting better results from using the Forster Benchrest full length die with the high expander,as whatsupdoc said.It's really hard to feel the expander doing anything.I don't turn necks,and I believe if you're not turning,you should be using a mandrel or a button,especially if you're not using high quality brass.For me,I'll keep using the Forster setup.It's simple and very reliable.