Expander ball question

[savageshooter86]

So in my die I have a 307 and a 308 size expander ball for my 308 win die. So on my new brass that is 1x fired I sized with the 307 and necks are around .334. I then used the 308 and necks come out 337? I am trying to get 335 necks after sizing

Is this common?

 

[jonbearman]

Do you anneal your brass?

 

[savageshooter86]

Yes. Freshly annealed using benchsource

 

[Webster]

As someone said annealing might help. 1X fired it was already neck annealed at the factory. Try pulling the 307 ball thru 2-3 times. There should always be some spring back due to elasticity even annealed brass. Less spring back if it's annealed. Annealing might give you the 0.001" your looking for? If it isn't a competition rifle I would not worry about it.

 

[gotcha]

So, is this a new die? Have you taken actual measurements of your expander balls with Micrometer? Is one expander hardened steel and the other Carbide? Just trying to eliminate possibilities

 

[savageshooter86]

Annealed brass 1x fired. I anneal every firing. Benchsource annealer

I'm trying to get 335 neck after sizing as this was what my PMA tool expander mandrel did after expanding for neck turning on virgin brass. So this load is shooting well during load work with sizes neck of 335

I've used this die for about a year. Expander balls are same and I did measure each with mic.

307 ball giving me 334 neck measurement.

I'm not new to reloading, just new to playing with neck tension.

 

[tuttlefarm]

Are your necks all turned the same?????

 

[savageshooter86]

Yes

I was just curious. I can just use the 307 and will run expander mandrel in for final. All cases I used mandrel on came out 335.

 

[Dos XX]

If your necks are turned, don't use an expander ball. Use a .335 bushing or whatever bushing gives you the neck size you want.

 

[savageshooter86]

I don't have bushing die. Was trying to use set up I have now

 

[Dusty Stevens]

You wont be able to fine tune neck tension without a bushing die.

 

[jlow]

Andrew, something is definitely wrong here.

If one assumes that all the brass is correctly annealed, they all have the same neck thickness, they were all initially sized down to the same and yet unknown smaller diameter, and the two expander ball are indeed .307 and .308, then there is no way that the .308 expander which is only 1 thousands wider will produce a neck ID that is 4 thousands wider. I would suggest you go and check each of the above assumptions. I could be your neck ID measurements, those are hard to do correctly.

 

[savageshooter86]

Annealed properly
Mic each expander ball
Measured case necks same way. Even Mic the necks too vs calipers

Like I said the pma expander creates 335 at neck on every case. Sizing die sizes down to 328 without expander ball

This was strange to me. Like above too the 307 sized about what it did for past year and many firings. This was first time trying the 308 expander ball

 

[Iowa Fox]

I quit using expander balls years ago. All they do is pull and stretch your necks crocked even with plenty of lube applied inside the neck with a Q-Tip. Even tried Imperial plus other slippery lubes and polishing the ball with flitz. No more for me.

 

[jonbearman]

At this point it looks like you may be over working the brass.

 

[savageshooter86]

That is what I thought all last season and first part of this season. But I got 11 firings on brass and scores were decent.

It is a SAAMI spec chamber I throated out

 

[noload]

It sounds like you want to start to control your neck tension, I think you are currently moving you brass excessively. You should make your life easier and use a FL die with a changeable neck bushing .

 

[gaboon]

Call John Whidden and get the 308 bushing die and remove the expander button. Your problems will go away.

 

[Dos XX]

You have the wrong set up for controlling neck tension. Couple of ideas.

Get a bushing die and take the expander ball out. This will allow you to resize the case and neck in one pass, if that is important to you. You control neck from OD.

You could also size with the bushing die to .001 or .002 under and then run the necks over your K & M mandrel. This allows you to control from the ID, plus this is the neck tension that you are trying to get.

Get a Lee Collet die. They work. This will also require two passes. You will need a body die, or a collet die with bushing removed, for resizing. I would not resize fully with you non bushing die and then neck size with the LCD.

I don't use a body die. I use a Whidden bushing die with the bushing removed as a body die. Gives me options to use bushings should I want to, like for a load that doesn't require the accuracy my F class loads do.

 

[savageshooter86]

Appreciate the info. I tried the bushing die when I first got into reloading and could not get consistent neck tension. I ruled this do to the excessive amount to sizing. I tried the LCD but could not get a feel for that set up. My die now is the std FL die Whidden sells.

Last season with the FL die and annealing I managed many low 190s and even a 199-6x. Load held good vertical and performed as expected.

Now I switched brass(Palma) and trying to shoot the heavier bullets. So this is the only reason I even started measuring anything because my brass as it sits un fired is the 335. And it is shooting decent in load workup.

I will play around some more with the different options and see which feels the best and take in y'alls ideas