Excessive copper fouling in a custom barrel?

[AKShooter]

Hello

I have a custom maker barrel. Caliber is a 7saum. 26 inches. I will say this is a accurate barrel. Trouble I am having is excessive copper fouling. Sporting rifle, if this was a competitive barrel, would have been replaced long ago

Around 300 down the tube, will go around 20 and start walking. First patches are bright blue. Worse than every factory I've had. My other barrel to compare is a 260 f classer, it will go 60 -70 with barely a hint of copper. It's a shilen, another Douglas that's great also

Another thing is I'm not getting expected velocities, around 50fps less than reloading books with a 24 inch barrel.

Cleaning, wipeout patching, using a nylon brush sometimes

Just wondering what's folks thoughts? I feel its a tight barrel, but no real logic than a hunch

Anything to clean it up so to speak? Again, pretty good shooting barrel, just really tired of what I'm pushing out of it

Thanks

 

[artbosco]

Hello

I have a custom maker barrel. Caliber is a 7saum. 26 inches. I will say this is a accurate barrel. Trouble I am having is excessive copper fouling. Sporting rifle, if this was a competitive barrel, would have been replaced long ago

Around 300 down the tube, will go around 20 and start walking. First patches are bright blue. Worse than every factory I've had. My other barrel to compare is a 260 f classer, it will go 60 -70 with barely a hint of copper. It's a shilen, another Douglas that's great also

Another thing is I'm not getting expected velocities, around 50fps less than reloading books with a 24 inch barrel.

Cleaning, wipeout patching, using a nylon brush sometimes

Just wondering what's folks thoughts? I feel its a tight barrel, but no real logic than a hunch

Anything to clean it up so to speak? Again, pretty good shooting barrel, just really tired of what I'm pushing out of it

Thanks

Use JB Bore Cleaner. Use it after every yardage. 3 to 5 tight fitting patches with JB will get all types of fouling out. I do a full cleaning before I use JB and also after I use JB, to make certain I've got all the JB out of the barrel.

 

[AKShooter]

Thoughts on JB improving it future fouling with its use?

After more reading here getting ready to start running a new 6 dasher, thinking about starting a bronze regiment too

 

[lpreddick]

copper fouling is a strange beast. i've had two custom barrels that were copper mines! one i finally yanked and will never shoot again. my observations follow and i could be totally wrong, but there seems to be two types of copper fouling. borescoping can show these. first is copper seen on the lands and can be seen as streaks on the lands surface and along the edges of the land and can be spotty. this i think is copper that has been stripped from the bullet. the second is the copper wash seen in the last foot or so of a barrel usually "painted" in the grooves. this i suspect is copper ?vapor that was burned from the bullet by hot gas blowby just before the bullet obturates the bore. thousands degree gas blowing by a copper bullet will vaporize jacket and when it reaches the "cooler" section of the barrel, it deposits on the bore. a blue patch with streaks is the former and a pale diffuse patch is the latter. will the stripper barrel be benefited by bore lapping with the tubb's system? will the second copper fouler be less likely with the smallest neck clearance. a .269 loaded neck in a .2704 chamber doesn't leave a very big gap for gas to burn past the bullet, while a .269 in a .272 neck will let it flow. i could be all wet here but i'm for evermore looking for explanations that make sense.

 

[CatShooter]

Another thing is I'm not getting expected velocities, around 50fps less than reloading books with a 24 inch barrel.

You can never get velocities that are in a manual - no two barrels, chambers, throats, and rifling... are the same. If you compare five different manuals, none of them will match each other, either in the load/velocity, or the max loads.

Loading is part science, but mostly "Black art".

 

[Rustystud]

Not all aftermarket barrels are the same. Don't expect the same break in on a lower end after market barrel. You get what you pay for, and a lot of people have drank the internet koolaide. Once in a while a economy barrel will excel, that is the exception not the rule.

I learned my lesson and visually inspect and slug every barrel sent to me by a customer.

I only buy premium quality barrels. The manufacture should use the best quality steel, all steel should be stress relieve before drilling. Then reamed, and stress relieved again. Then pre lapped and rifled. There are some differences in the sequence (contouring) between cut rifled and button rifled barrels. The better barrels will be stress relieved again and final lapped.

Many barrel makers don't go through all these steps to reduce cost. Premium barrel makers are "artist" with the steel. Anyone can make an "OEM" quality barrel.

Stress relieved steel machines better/more consistently. Better barrels are drilled straight, +/-.0003", contoured so they are centered at the tenon and muzzle. They are reamed to round up the drilled hole. They are prelapped to clean up tool marks and tight spots to achieve a desired pre rifling diameter. Better barrels are lapped again after rifling to remove burs, tool marks and tight spots. A properly lapped barrel should have just a little choke in it. It takes a very skilled lapper to properly finish the bore. Properly made barrels take very little break in and copper a minimal amount.

As the old saying goes you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. Quality materials, expert skills, the right machines and tooling, proper process sequence, and some sweat make the best barrels.

Nat Lambeth

 

[artbosco]

Thoughts on JB improving it future fouling with its use?

I use Krieger barrels. Here are their comments:

Krieger Barrels Inc,: Q&A

Q: Will a paste-type bore cleaner such as J.B. hurt a barrel during cleaning?

A: No. There is nothing that we can find that shows that it will harm the barrel provided you use a rod guide and refrain from exiting the muzzle.
--------------------------------------
Instructions received from Krieger along with my Krieger barrel: Break-In and Cleaning, Under Cleaning:

"Abrasive cleaners work well. They do not damage the bore, they clean all types of fouling (copper, powder, lead, plastic), and they have the added advantage of of polishing the throat both in 'break in' and later on when the throat begins to roughen again from the rounds fired. One national champion we know polishes the throats on his rifles every several hundred rounds or so with diamond paste to extend their accuracy life."

 

[Joe Maisto]

Hello

I have a custom maker barrel. Caliber is a 7saum. 26 inches. I will say this is a accurate barrel. Trouble I am having is excessive copper fouling. Sporting rifle, if this was a competitive barrel, would have been replaced long ago

Around 300 down the tube, will go around 20 and start walking. First patches are bright blue. Worse than every factory I've had. My other barrel to compare is a 260 f classer, it will go 60 -70 with barely a hint of copper. It's a shilen, another Douglas that's great also

Another thing is I'm not getting expected velocities, around 50fps less than reloading books with a 24 inch barrel.

Cleaning, wipeout patching, using a nylon brush sometimes

Just wondering what's folks thoughts? I feel its a tight barrel, but no real logic than a hunch

Anything to clean it up so to speak? Again, pretty good shooting barrel, just really tired of what I'm pushing out of it

Thanks

Use JB Bore Cleaner. Use it after every yardage. 3 to 5 tight fitting patches with JB will get all types of fouling out. I do a full cleaning before I use JB and also after I use JB, to make certain I've got all the JB out of the barrel.

Outdoorsman;
That is exactly the way I do it as well. For the liquid cleaner, Butches Bore Shine.

JM

 

[jkohler]

I have one barrel I finally pulled off after 600 rounds its a copper queen. I believe it's problem is it has two tight spots it the barrel that's Causing the copper problem. With my borescope it looks great

 

[jonbearman]

Why not use final finish by tubbs,it brought to life a barrel that just wouldnt shoot well.It is still going strong.

 

[22BRGUY]

Recently I read an article somewhere on this site about a product called Dyna Tec that sounds like it might help in this situation. Its a microscopic bore coating process evidently that fills the cracks and pits ina barrel with ceramic. Sounded good to me. Maybe someone else can point out exactly where that post is now.
Best Wishes

 

[Jason Boersma]

what bullet are you shooting? I have found that hornady bullets copper foul more than berger's, their jackets must be a little softer.

 

[mr45man]

http://www.dyna-tek.com/Bore-Coat-Application-Instructions-s/1832.htm

 

[AKShooter]

Thanks guys.

I'll start with the JB bore paste. I do have some sitting around here. I kind of have my doubts on my "brushless" cleaning method. Maybe I'm just not getting it clean enough prior to shooting?

If it continues, I'll try some of the bore treatment. What can it hurt? And the price is good too.

Shooting nolser accubonds mainly. Again, pretty accurate rifle, no complaints there. It's a sporting arm, so a 20-30 round session at a bench is about all I shoot,,,,,1, hopefully, in the field.

 

[lpreddick]

22BRGUY: 4 posting down and you'll find some discussion re DynaTek bore coating ceramic suspension. i tried the older formula and it absolutely worked...reduces carbon and copper fouling and therefore cleaning time. the current product however may have some problems...i still have to use a bronze brush to get all the baked on carbon. my verdict is still pending.

 

[butchlambert]

I looked and this is the 86th different thread started on this forum about this. There is a search function on this forum.