ES or SD

[John1945]

you still would like to have low numbers for the es&sd if the numbers are so high it doesn't matter how good it groups at long range
example
ES is 30 or more it's not going to make it very well at distance

So you think lower numbers out way score? If it was a shoot to get the lowest numbers that would be right. I know of no such match. Score is all that counts. I've had average velocities in the area of 1050. I always look at the Garmin before the target. One shot went 1075 and I knew it was high. Wrong, X on ARA unlimited. Then I can get a normal velocity and it's low. Only thing that matters is score.

 

[ArtinNC]

I know how SD and ES works on CF but how do you control it in RF . In one box of ammo you could have most all 1050 fpc and a few 1075 fpc . Rimfire you you have to take whatever you get in that box of Ammo.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

So you think lower numbers out way score? If it was a shoot to get the lowest numbers that would be right. I know of no such match. Score is all that counts. I've had average velocities in the area of 1050. I always look at the Garmin before the target. One shot went 1075 and I knew it was high. Wrong, X on ARA unlimited. Then I can get a normal velocity and it's low. Only thing that matters is score.

I agree that after 20 minutes and 25 shots the only number I am interested in is the total shots scored.
if a shot scored 50 knowing what the SD or ES won't change the outcome. even testing ammo, it will either score good or not knowing why with the SD or ES won't change how the ammo shoots.
I still can't wrap my head around RF shooters who think it matters. if you have lot of ammo with, say 2-3 SD or ES and you're shooting in 20+mph sustained winds how much will that help? you still need to know where you hold for the shot.

Lee

 

[grauhanen]

Something to keep in mind when considering MV and SD. When tracking MV and POI, it becomes clear that the relationship between MV and POI is not always consistent. This can be seen at 50 yards and at 100 it can be quite obvious. Wind conditions aside, that means bullets don't always go where MV predicts.

The further the target the more inconsistent the MV/POI relationship. It usually worsens results. Sometimes it can improve them.

ES and SD is not a consistent and reliable predictor of ammo performance.

 

[MarkS]

Actually ya, the data kinda does tell you likelyhood of outliers…. Lol. If you’re shooting at 300+ yards the SD is pretty important.

educate me ( I'm not being a ass, I would like to know ) how does it tell you a outlier is coming.. And you say SD is important for 300+ yds. What is it telling me? Is there any input for ES/SD in ballistic app, like AB?

 

[Straightshooter1]

I know how SD and ES works on CF but how do you control it in RF . In one box of ammo you could have most all 1050 fpc and a few 1075 fpc . Rimfire you you have to take whatever you get in that box of Ammo.

Yeah, you're right, you just have to take what comes in a box. However, you can choose who's box of ammo to use and test to see which lot works best in you particular gun.

Looking an my many years of data I've collected on a spreadsheet and sorting by SD's, the ammo that tends to have the lowest SD's/ES's (often in the single digits) are the higher quality higher priced ammo produced by Eley, Lapua and RWS. At the bottom and the worst are the likes of Winchester and Remington and Aguila (some having as much as triple digit SD's). Federal, CCI's, SK's and Armscor tend to land somewhere in the middle.

 

[Csafisher]

educate me ( I'm not being a ass, I would like to know ) how does it tell you a outlier is coming.. And you say SD is important for 300+ yds. What is it telling me? Is there any input for ES/SD in ballistic app, like AB?

I said it tells you how likely an outlier is. Not when the next one is coming. Higher SDs will have more “outliers” and show more vertical at distance

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I said it tells you how likely an outlier is. Not when the next one is coming. Higher SDs will have more “outliers” and show more vertical at distance

You may not have said exactly when it will happen but saying likely will is having an indication it will.
so again, how will this help? because without knowing how that round will shoot and how much or little SD will be how can you apply it when competing. the chrono readings are all after the fact. and since with Rimfire ammo you can't pull the rounds apart and change the load knowing after the fact has little use.

Lee

 

[TRSR8]

So you think lower numbers out way score? If it was a shoot to get the lowest numbers that would be right. I know of no such match. Score is all that counts. I've had average velocities in the area of 1050. I always look at the Garmin before the target. One shot went 1075 and I knew it was high. Wrong, X on ARA unlimited. Then I can get a normal velocity and it's low. Only thing that matters is score.

As John said....numbers can be deceptive.
I've had great ammo with bigger spread than you'd figure, also fairly mediocre with tight spread.
I'd guess some version of "good groups do not universally translate to great scores", why? nobody knows.

 

[TC260]

Is there any input for ES/SD in ballistic app, like AB?

Yes. There may be others too but if you're using WEZ in AB you can add your SD numbers for velocity.

 

[Csafisher]

You may not have said exactly when it will happen but saying likely will is having an indication it will.
so again, how will this help? because without knowing how that round will shoot and how much or little SD will be how can you apply it when competing. the chrono readings are all after the fact. and since with Rimfire ammo you can't pull the rounds apart and change the load knowing after the fact has little use.

Lee

Lower SD = less vertical over larger samples. Meaning fewer “outliers”

Probably not as big a deal for 50 yd bench people