ES and SD Question
- Thread starter jeguia
- Start date
Seems to me it depends on the type of precision shooting you're doing (eg. hitting steel or X's on paper).
For some, it may be summed up in two words: Single Digits
For some, it may be summed up in two words: Single Digits
CaptainMal
Silver $$ Contributor
I like an ES under 20 fps. That way you can tune to find a proper compensated barrel timing to get both faster and slower into the same place at the longer distances.
For short range, say under 300 yards, I doubt it means squat.
For short range, say under 300 yards, I doubt it means squat.
XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
How far are you shooting? and what type of shooting?
I don't shoot BR, but when you are trying to measure group size to .001 pretty much everything matters. They stack fairy wings on pin heads.
For the rest of us, ES/SD really don't begin to matter for most shooting inside of 600 yards as long as you have good loading practices you are going to be fine.
Just for an example using JBM, if you are shooting a 308 with Berger 200-20x bullets, if you have an ES of 50FPS (that's horrible) you are only getting 3.6" of elevation from that at 600 yards, that's still almost ½ MOA and would shoot well enough for a lot of club level matches.
Again depending on your target size, if you are trying to ring 24" steel plates at 1000 yards then that same 50 ES is going to translate to a 14" vertical dispersion, that might be too much, and would be too much for any kind of NRA HP shooting.
In the end the question always come down to "what are you trying to do"?
I don't shoot BR, but when you are trying to measure group size to .001 pretty much everything matters. They stack fairy wings on pin heads.
For the rest of us, ES/SD really don't begin to matter for most shooting inside of 600 yards as long as you have good loading practices you are going to be fine.
Just for an example using JBM, if you are shooting a 308 with Berger 200-20x bullets, if you have an ES of 50FPS (that's horrible) you are only getting 3.6" of elevation from that at 600 yards, that's still almost ½ MOA and would shoot well enough for a lot of club level matches.
Again depending on your target size, if you are trying to ring 24" steel plates at 1000 yards then that same 50 ES is going to translate to a 14" vertical dispersion, that might be too much, and would be too much for any kind of NRA HP shooting.
In the end the question always come down to "what are you trying to do"?
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XTR
F-TR obssessed shooting junkie
Shooting F class to 1000 yards you want to get 15 to 20 or better to keep your dispersion due to velocity less than X ring vertical. There are other factors that may affect the results on the target, but that's kind of a benchmark. If you are getting more than that you're probably not holding the X ring at 1000 yards, and that needs to be for 20 shots, not 5. Five is not a statistically significant sampling, it can identify a problem, but it can't qualify the load as good. That said, using good practices I've never had an ES problem with a load that was in what we consider a "node". I only run strings for chrono data if I'm trying to identify a problem, not to qualify a load.
Edit: there is an exception to my comment above about "never". Several yrs ago I tried a different powder, shot awesome little 5 shot groups at 300. At 1000 I'd get 3 or 4 flyers per match. Ran two 10 shot strings over the chrono, and low and behold 2 or 3 out of 10 were 60 to 80FPS out of the average for the rest. Don't run that powder any more.
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If you're new at this, search this site for "positive compensation". Long-range BR rifles consistently group smaller than ES would predict. There's a reason for that.
^^^^^^^This^^^^^^^^
CW
Liven The Dream
Gold $$ Contributor
Well lots of good information .
2 cents here ? I shoot NRA Palma and a Little F-Class 300-1000 yards.
I look at it this way ! the Ammo must be the Best I can make up …. That way the only trouble is the Dummy behind the Gun.
I work at loading as a test to my level . SD 10 or below ….
I do all the case prep , sort by weight . I find in most cases a Primer change makes a big difference ?
Read all the articles you can and use good equipment and products .
The Best of Luck
2 cents here ? I shoot NRA Palma and a Little F-Class 300-1000 yards.
I look at it this way ! the Ammo must be the Best I can make up …. That way the only trouble is the Dummy behind the Gun.
I work at loading as a test to my level . SD 10 or below ….
I do all the case prep , sort by weight . I find in most cases a Primer change makes a big difference ?
Read all the articles you can and use good equipment and products .
The Best of Luck
Rope2horns
Norm Harrold
I partake in Fclass shooting....Owning a chronograph isn't a necessity but makes for nice additional information. I don't own one, but I'm also fortunate enough to be able to test at the distance I plan on shooting 600/1000yrds.Which you better be able to do if you don't own a speedometer. If you aren't capable of testing at distance then the chronograph becomes a even more important tool. Shooting small groups up close with no verifiable numbers doesn't always translate to a competitive load at distance.
Really?? I don't know how I set records and shot so small at 1000 and only tune at 100 yds. Better rethink that and know what to look for like my last load I'm taking to a match ES is 3 and it repeated many times with .1 round groups, over good wind flags. Barrel quality means more than anything, along with good bullets ..... jim
Also a Chronograph is a very important tool for long range plus checking lot to lot uniformity in powder..... jim
. He just lucked into his results at the last F-class LR nationals.
What records?
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