Equipment Req'd for Specific Accuracy Goals

[Phil3]

I did not see this question asked before, but if it has, please let me know, and I can delete this one. The question is, "what kind of rifle and supporting equipment, is needed to achieve (insert value here) MOA accuracy in at least 65% of 5 shot groups fired"?

For instance, what kind of rifle, cartridge, shooting setup, ammo, etc. would one need to have to shoot 5 shot 1/3 MOA groups, two out of three times, at a distance of 100 - 300 yards? A 6mmBR or maybe a 6PPC could do this I would think, in a custom rifle, shooting off a mechanical front rest, and with handloaded ammo. But how about a factory action with a custom barrel, in a decent stock or chassis, fired off a bipod and rear bag, firing 223 Remington? This is just an example, but it is helpful I think to know one's expectations and then understand what it will take to get there. As an aside, I do not compete, so beating others is irrelevant to me.

 

[Sandstorm]

If you hand load for your factory rifle...this is possible.
However not in every case...so give it a shot.
If you have a well tuned load in 6PPC for example.. amazing things can happen....or not.
You decide for yourself Sir.

 

[riflewoman]

1/3 MOA is pretty generous in some circles, tight in others. So the answer is “it depends”

IMO, this is the accuracy needed to be high level, (not necessarily TOP level) in these disciplines:
Short range Benchrest. .1 MOA
Mid Range, Long Range BR, F Class. .2 to .3 MOA
F-TR, Palma. .4 MOA
PR and NRA match rifle. .5 MOA
CMP Service Rifle .8 MOA.

if you want to win the big matches, half these numbers. This is the rifle capability. The shooter and conditions add more.

 

[BoydAllen]

Your question is too broad. Walking someone through all of the details involved in this takes a lot of time and effort. I have done it before. If someone is just looking to satisfy his curiosity, it is not worth the effort. Usually, after they learn what is involved they do not want to do it all and since reliable accuracy is a weakest link thing, you cannot pick and choose from the requirements for achieving a given level. My suggestion is that you ask specific questions, in separate posts that only require short concise answers.

 

[BlueWater]

I did not see this question asked before, but if it has, please let me know, and I can delete this one. The question is, "what kind of rifle and supporting equipment, is needed to achieve (insert value here) MOA accuracy in at least 65% of 5 shot groups fired"?

For instance, what kind of rifle, cartridge, shooting setup, ammo, etc. would one need to have to shoot 5 shot 1/3 MOA groups, two out of three times, at a distance of 100 - 300 yards? A 6mmBR or maybe a 6PPC could do this I would think, in a custom rifle, shooting off a mechanical front rest, and with handloaded ammo. But how about a factory action with a custom barrel, in a decent stock or chassis, fired off a bipod and rear bag, firing 223 Remington? This is just an example, but it is helpful I think to know one's expectations and then understand what it will take to get there. As an aside, I do not compete, so beating others is irrelevant to me.

Did this with a Remington 700 SPS Varmint .243, via adding a Jewell HVR trigger and a custom-made fiberglass stock (properly bedded of course). It would usually do raggedy single holes at 100yds, and almost always sub-1" (nearly 1/2") groups at 300yds. In the hands of a better marksman it could probably have done better than that. I wasn't reloading, at the time, on that rifle.

No idea if I'd just acquired a "peach" of a Rem700 barreled action, all the stars aligned, or the simple addition of the trigger and great stock brought everything together. Factory action+barrel, but with a good trigger and a great stock.

 

[Toolbreaker]

The shooter and conditions add more.

Without delving into the hardware side, I think riflewoman's comment here sums up the A#1 issue regarding accuracy of any shooting system (trigger puller, rifle, ammo and support goodies). I've had my rear handed to me more than once from friends shooting my rifles using my ammo. It's definitely humbling.

 

[garandman]

Your question is too broad.

^ ^ ^ this.

 

[Phil3]

Your question is too broad. Walking someone through all of the details involved in this takes a lot of time and effort. I have done it before. If someone is just looking to satisfy his curiosity, it is not worth the effort. Usually, after they learn what is involved they do not want to do it all and since reliable accuracy is a weakest link thing, you cannot pick and choose from the requirements for achieving a given level. My suggestion is that you ask specific questions, in separate posts that only require short concise answers.

My question is not about walking someone through all the details, nor am I asking out of curiosity. And you are right, some will walk away, finding their desired level of accuracy costing far too much in time, effort, cost, etc. I did not suggest pick and choose from requirements to achieve a given level. Just wanted high level guidance, which might sound something like, "if you want to pursue 1/4 MOA at 600 yards, you almost certainly will need a custom rifle, top drawer optics, quality handloads, high quality shooting rest components, chronograph, etc" (example only). Discussion of each would take quite some time! But, was not asking for that.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[Phil3]

Without delving into the hardware side, I think riflewoman's comment here sums up the A#1 issue regarding accuracy of any shooting system (trigger puller, rifle, ammo and support goodies). I've had my rear handed to me more than once from friends shooting my rifles using my ammo. It's definitely humbling.

No question, the driver makes a big difference. I once road raced motorcycles and my friend took my bike out to ride in practice. He never rode it before, but smoked my lap times. Yeah...definitely humbling!

 

[Texas10]

I did not see this question asked before, but if it has, please let me know, and I can delete this one. The question is, "what kind of rifle and supporting equipment, is needed to achieve (insert value here) MOA accuracy in at least 65% of 5 shot groups fired"?

For instance, what kind of rifle, cartridge, shooting setup, ammo, etc. would one need to have to shoot 5 shot 1/3 MOA groups, two out of three times, at a distance of 100 - 300 yards? A 6mmBR or maybe a 6PPC could do this I would think, in a custom rifle, shooting off a mechanical front rest, and with handloaded ammo. But how about a factory action with a custom barrel, in a decent stock or chassis, fired off a bipod and rear bag, firing 223 Remington? This is just an example, but it is helpful I think to know one's expectations and then understand what it will take to get there. As an aside, I do not compete, so beating others is irrelevant to me.

Years ago I was at that stage of being capable of shooting well, but lacking the equipment and time to practice until I decided to make it more of a priority in life. Starting with a factory rifle and new to handloading, I had mixed results on paper. The problem was, I never knew if my shooting successes or failures were the result of my hand loading practices, rifle brand and maintenance, or just not being capable of exercising the skill level required to shoot well on that particular day.

My take on that was to shortcut that process and purchase a rifle of known capability, and shooting a well regarded load formula. Once so outfitted, the path to better marksmanship became much more predictable, and allowed me to focus on bench manners and technique. While good quality bench paraphernalia will add to consistency, there's no reason I couldn't occasionally put 5 in one hole while shooting off a sand bag with a capable rifle and load, even one that I'd built.

As for your question regarding caliber choice, I built several 6mmBR rifles based upon stock Savage actions and they all performed at least was well as your suggested 5 shot, 1/3 moa or better groups with hand loads. The 6mmBR, 6ppc, or 30BR will all accomplish literal "pinpoint accuracy" in the right hands at that distance, with the 30BR being perhaps the most common choice due to its heavier, faster bullet being more resistant to wind deflections.

Forum Boss: Actually a 6mmBR with 95-107gr bullets will have far less wind drift than a 30BR with typical bullets. The 30BR has excellent accuracy but the main advantage for score shooting is the larger diameter for better chance to touch the highest scoring rings.

 

[jelenko]

^^ This.
I would add that shooting from a bipod is too vague. There are bipods from Harris types to these types https://www.gotxring.com/parts-accesories/
Shooting from a Harris type bipod requires a fair amount of skill building and, I think, would be tough to get to .3 MOA even with a rifle capable of .1 MOA.

 

[joshb]

A good rifle and consistently loaded ammo tuned for the gun.
But...... if you own a Creedmoor....ya just load it with factory ammo and point it in the general direction of the target. Ya need a talisman to do it, tho!
(Sorry...I’m in a mood.)

 

[Jager]

No question, the driver makes a big difference. I once road raced motorcycles and my friend took my bike out to ride in practice. He never rode it before, but smoked my lap times. Yeah...definitely humbling!

Since you're a former motorcycle road racer I'll put it in those terms... your question is akin to asking "what bike and what supporting equipment do I need to do a 1:53 and change lap time at Losail (Qatar)?"

And the answer, of course, is that the question is impossibly broad. There are any number of different bike chassis, engine designs, and tire compositions that might do that time. Assuming a rider - always the biggest wildcard - up to the task.

What I'd suggest is figuring what kind of shooting discipline you're interested in... and taking note of what the current competitors in that discipline are using.

Yes, you need certain equipment to be competitive. But you can't buy yourself onto the podium in any of the shooting sports, any more than you can buy that 1:53 lap time at Losail.

 

[jelenko]

^^ Exactly.

 

[CNC-Dude]

I bought a Savage 12FV in .308 with big plans of having a decent shooting factory bolt gun. After doing load development, I found that none of the loads produced consistent groups, averaging 1/2 MOA to 5/8 MOA and then some groups looked like a shotgun pattern. All with reloaded Federal brass and 167g Lapua Scenar. I determined that the action needed to be bedded. So I took the action out of the stock and discovered it was all plastic with no aluminum inner rail like a recent Savage 110 tactical I had also just purchased. So I dumped the factory stock and put on a Boyd's At-One for $200 bucks. I went back and dissected the best groups from my previous load development and started with those. The groups tightened up from 1/3 MOA to 1/2 MOA at 300 yards. Better, but I wanted to get even better consistancy. I switched to Lapua brass and bought an A&D scale, I was using a $39 Hornady scale. Now the gun shoots (4)5 shot groups at 300 yards with a score of 199-6X. I also had just a cheap Vortex Crossfire II scope on it, which for me isn't powerful enough for 600 and beyond but ok for 300.

So saying all that to say this, you can buy a decent rifle or even a higher end one and still have to make improvements to the gun itself, your reloading equipment and even consumables like projectiles, brass and those things. So what does it take to do that, its usually whatever you're willing to spend to achieve the results you're after. Some guns and calibers may get you there sooner and cheaper, others may not!

 

[INTJ]

To have an accurate rifle, we need a good quality barrel and a good chamber job. Neither is expensive or hard to come by. The more steel in the barrel the better.

Next we need a stable shooting position. The most stable position uses quality front and rear rests, a stable bench and shooting stool, and a stock designed to be stable. The least stable position is standing with no external support.

Along with that stable shooting position we need extreme consistency in how we shoot. We need to hold the rifle and squeeze the trigger the same way each time, and if from a bench the crosshairs should be dead steady. If standing offhand then we need to use techniques to minimize unwanted crosshair movement.

To be consistent in shooting we need to see the target and sights clearly and eliminate parallax.

A true action and a decent bedding job are also needed for top notch accuracy.

The longer the distance we shoot, the more that conditions affect our accuracy and precision. Thus we need to use techniques to minimize the effects of conditions. Each shooting discipline approaches that in a different way.

In terms of pure accuracy, I would rank cartridges this way:

1. 6 PPC (300 and under) and 6 BR Variants (mode to long range)

2. 300 SAUM IMP and 300 WSM

3. 284 variations/7 SAUM

Generally, in average to good conditions, nothing will outshoot the 6mms. In average to poor conditions the 30s do very well. The 7s are next. The reason BR picks 6s and 30s and F-Class the 7s has to do with optimizing the cartridge for how each discipline is shot.

When it comes to a hunting rifle, portability is a huge factor. That portability limits the raw accuracy potential. That is why a very nice $6000 hunting rifle will lose out to a $3000 target rifle in terms of accuracy and repeatability.