Super high magnification scopes will not help you in ELR. Might actually hurt you. Mirage can make you chase targets at ELR distances. My first "mile" hit I had to zoom out to under 10x power. I am by no means an ELR expert, but have dabbled and shot a few ELR matches. I am however a total scope snob...
ELR optics: Leupold vs Nightforce
- Thread starter MRogersII
- Start date
I have ATACR and can only comment on that scope and not the others:
It has a ton of elevation. With 20 MOA rail on my .338 and 100 yard zero, I recall I had somewhere around 80 min up. Tracking is fantastic. You can shoot 100 yards, 2,000 and back to 100 yard zero every time. Glass and clarity is also fantastic.
That being said, it's not an F class scope. I put it on my FTR gun a few times at 600 and 1,000 and the reticle is too large for competition. It's a good ELR scope and for shooting steel targets.
It has a ton of elevation. With 20 MOA rail on my .338 and 100 yard zero, I recall I had somewhere around 80 min up. Tracking is fantastic. You can shoot 100 yards, 2,000 and back to 100 yard zero every time. Glass and clarity is also fantastic.
That being said, it's not an F class scope. I put it on my FTR gun a few times at 600 and 1,000 and the reticle is too large for competition. It's a good ELR scope and for shooting steel targets.
LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
- I Have shot 1 ELR Event - The first E2K (2000 yards at targets for group & score). - FWIW the day time temperatures got in the 90's in Montana when we were shooting. - I shot all 3 classes and typically I had my scope set between about 42x in the earlier part of the day and turned down to approx. 30x in the afternoon. - I hold the record for score, but what do I know ??
Just my opinion -High Magnification scopes Do have a place in ELR. - A good 8-32x is the minimum I'd run and a 10-50x IMO is probably about right. - I ran a March 10-60x on a Bi-pod gun and a 10-50x SVSS Sightron on the bench in Unlimited.
I don't know much about the Leupold scopes, the NightForce scopes I have experience with have performed very well. - My personal "nod" would go to a NightForce if I was picking between the two named scopes.
- Ron -
Last edited:
7mmmag
Gold $$ Contributor
I would go to the NRA show and walk to some of the vendors and ask questions brought up about their products and concerns that were mentioned . I know the factory people will be the ones answering but you might pick up on something .
I have 3 MK 4 and love them and I have some VX 5 for hunting scopes that several of my friends comment on the glass being very clear . I have had good luck with Leupold .
I have 3 MK 4 and love them and I have some VX 5 for hunting scopes that several of my friends comment on the glass being very clear . I have had good luck with Leupold .
Do you tend to favour the March or the SVSS for ELR ?
LA50SHOOTER
Sworn To Protect The Constitution.
The SVSS was shot in the earlier part of the day and I didn't have near the mirage to deal with, also the gun it was on the barrel never even got warm between shooting the 5-6 sighters (in the 6 minute sighter period) and then the 5 shots for record on the target. (Unlimited 338 Lapua Imp.)
The March was shot on the same caliber of rifle but with a way lighter barrel profile (to stay within weight limit) and it was shot during a warmer temperature. And I could see mirage increase as my barrel was warming up.
Where weight isn't a concern (Like it was making an 18 Lb. Limit for the "Hunter Gun" class) I give the "Nod" to the SVSS because of the ability to finely focus and I believe the glass is every bit as good, if not better.
I went to the Southeast ELR Match on the 15th of this month.
There were lots of Nightforce ATACRs, some Leupolds, some Vortexs, some Schmidts. It was basically a lot of the same scopes you would see at a PRS match.
David Tubb is using Leupold scopes, but I think they are using it with his DTR reticle.
I shot light gun class and placed second using a Schmidt and Bender PMII 3-20x.
The guys that do well because their data tracks and they can read the wind. Either scope on your list is probably good to go, with the Nightforce being the more preferred option.
There were lots of Nightforce ATACRs, some Leupolds, some Vortexs, some Schmidts. It was basically a lot of the same scopes you would see at a PRS match.
David Tubb is using Leupold scopes, but I think they are using it with his DTR reticle.
I shot light gun class and placed second using a Schmidt and Bender PMII 3-20x.
The guys that do well because their data tracks and they can read the wind. Either scope on your list is probably good to go, with the Nightforce being the more preferred option.
Attachments
At this level of scopes, it's hard to say which is better because they will all do the same job just as good.
Only things I would look at is...
Does it have all the stuff you want like illumination, zero stop, FFP or SFP reticle, 1/4moa or 1/8 moa or Mrad clicks etc.. ?
Is weight a factor ?
Can you live with the warranty ???
Some scopes only have 5 or 10 years warranty, others only honor the warranty for the original owner so read the warranty. Some warranties will honor anythings and everything including you telling them the scope broke when you used it to hammer a railway spike through 4" of oak plank.
For me personally the warranty is very important when spending $ 2+k on a optic.
Only things I would look at is...
Does it have all the stuff you want like illumination, zero stop, FFP or SFP reticle, 1/4moa or 1/8 moa or Mrad clicks etc.. ?
Is weight a factor ?
Can you live with the warranty ???
Some scopes only have 5 or 10 years warranty, others only honor the warranty for the original owner so read the warranty. Some warranties will honor anythings and everything including you telling them the scope broke when you used it to hammer a railway spike through 4" of oak plank.
For me personally the warranty is very important when spending $ 2+k on a optic.
Last edited:
I shoot out to 1700yds frequently and have a NF BEAST. at the longer distances the turrets are a big plus as I don't get lost on multiple rotations. For real ELR I would want more magnification. Maybe
http://www.nightforceoptics.com/atacr/7-35x56-f1
or
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-and-military-forces/12-50x56-pm-iip.html
I think at those distances reticle choice would be the most important issue which is where the S&B probably wins with their 2nd FP choices.
http://www.nightforceoptics.com/atacr/7-35x56-f1
or
http://www.schmidtundbender.de/en/products/police-and-military-forces/12-50x56-pm-iip.html
I think at those distances reticle choice would be the most important issue which is where the S&B probably wins with their 2nd FP choices.
NIGHTFORCE just released 3 second focal plane ATACR..(due out in March) Matt
Just remember, the higher the magnification, the less scope travel that comes with it. Being able to see is great, but not being able to take a shot because you are maxed out on up or not having a holdover reticle to compensate means you are done for. Kentucky windage is cool at 3-400 yards, not so much at 2000 yards.
I think the 7-35x Nightforce is probably the perfect scope for ELR. But I also don't think it matters that much. Having the .2 hash marks at high magnification means you can deduce the wind down to a finer call.
My experience at the Southeast ELR match showed me that there are a lot of points to be gained by just having a match strategy.
We shot a bare bones gun with just a scope and a bipod, and did very well because we had a super aggressive wind strategy that was basically "dope the wind and shoot as fast as you can in a onown condition" and "If we miss...add more wind."
We didn't spend a lot of time trying to deduce how we missed, or worrying about not seeing our impacts. We just made decisions very quickly and let the bullets do the talking.
My experience at the Southeast ELR match showed me that there are a lot of points to be gained by just having a match strategy.
We shot a bare bones gun with just a scope and a bipod, and did very well because we had a super aggressive wind strategy that was basically "dope the wind and shoot as fast as you can in a onown condition" and "If we miss...add more wind."
We didn't spend a lot of time trying to deduce how we missed, or worrying about not seeing our impacts. We just made decisions very quickly and let the bullets do the talking.
This was my experience with leupold also.
Replaced them all with nightforce and couldn't be happier. Won't ever buy a leupold again
muleman69
USMC -1st marine Div. RVN
Leupold not working out hear, have sent two back in the last 6 weeks . The VX 3's have not been reliable at all. I do have a VX-6 that seems to be an okay scope so far. Have sent optics to them that came back with same issues . Taking them off my hunting rifles before next season,NF or SWARO here.
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
The two best scopes for cutting mirage that I have experience with is the Kahles K 10-50x56 and the Trijicon Accupower 4.5-30x56. Both with SFP reticles. The Trijicon is arguably slightly better than the Kahles at cutting mirage on like power settings. Both maintain impressive high resolution on max magnification settings through heavy mirage. Both have very fine focus adjustments as well. The Trijicon gives a more pleasing image to my eyes as the colors are more vivid and true. The Kahles color contrast is good in bright sunlight, but quite poor on cloudy days or low light. Both would make for excellent ELR optics.
Just my $.02
Just my $.02
Did you look through a ATACR? I looked through one once and the glass seemed to be much like the Competition except maybe brighter. Probably because of the bigger objective. Matt
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.