Elk

[.260 james]

There is another thread on here where some think its ok to go elk hunting with a 6mm 100 gr bullet.
I have never been on a guided hunt but wonder what the min caliber is required by the outfitters/ guides


And talk about neck shots, 800 Yard shots etc.
I hope our Less experienced readers/hunters don't take these comments
to the woods
John H.

Most of the guides here prefer the hunter carry a .308, .270 to .30-06 range of calibers that they are used to rather then then to bring a .300 or .338 they probably didn't practice enuff with. That being said. Most all of the guided hunting I have been around here is either in timber or one area where its on edge country with irrigated hay fields. Either place a 200 yd shot is a long one .In the case of the open hay field area, Hunter patience and composure is WAY more important then caliber. Some people find it hard to watch an elk cross an entire hay field and a few hundred yards of brushy hillside just to be missed at 50 yds.

 

[SEB-USA]

I guess if one is a slob hunter then multiple poorly placed shots may be the norm, but that has not been my experience or the folks I know.

just curious. wondered what caliber people use on some videos I watched and your thoughts. personally I'll probably never get a chance to even hunt elk. seen grey bull precision video with wayne van zwoll taking down one with 6.5cr at 606 yards. guess that kinda answers my question. I shoot some at 770 yards out to 960 maybe once a month if I get a chance. I know what your talking about and the difficulty in a shot like that. that damn wind. . I'd not try a shot like that myself cause I wouldn't feel comfortable yet. like I said probably wont get to.

What you don't get to see very often are videos showing elk crippled by poor shots, poor decisions, poor shooters, and bad choice of calibers. This is probably the norm for these long range shots, not one shot kills.

 

[model 12 toby]

i've not shot at one 800. I was just curious. I shot 540 yards the other day in wind and I'd say that's my limit with the wind with my lapua. no wind I'd be a little more comfortable. I'm just not good at reading the wind. that was just a target of course. Like I said there's probably never going to be a day I get to hunt at elk but I was just curious. My 7mm mag might be a different story. I just asked this to learn something and I wasn't dissappointed. lotta posts.

 

[Jim See]

The Ironic thing about the LR elk hunter is he typically learns local elk patterns faster, and knows more about his quarry and how they relate to the terrain than 99% of the brush busters hunting the same area.

This alone will cause him to have a success rate 50%+ higher than the typical hunter, who may have hunted the area for a dozen years.

After Hunting the same area for 2 seasons and going for my third in this area Tuesday. I have already helped local CO residents harvest elk based on what I learned the first year of observing a substantial number of animals that the local brush hound will never see. Unlike many guys, If I meet you on the mountain and I get a good impression I will try and fill you with something that will help you score. Last year this helped a CO resident shoot a 6x6 on the second day of the season. I told him where I had observed a substantial funnel right off the main road in a off the beaten path little park. He sat on it for 2 days and killed his bull on Sunday morning at 75 yards. I will be visiting with him on the Mountain again this year as we now keep up e-mail contact.

One of the things I enjoy the most other than shooting elk and deer at LR, is watching the dozen or so hunters working the landscapes around my perch, on opening morning, and keeping tabs on them and the elk, as they circle/bump/shoot/spook/and walk right past each other. I always wished I could have ID markers on each one of them and the ability to talk to them in real time about what is happening around them.

The way I hunt there is zero down-time your mind seldom wanders as you continually find game, hunters, possible new stand sites, other camps, ect. I will occupy myself ranging possible target areas and dryfiring on non target animals as they work thru the landscape. All of this to prepare for the inevitable shot on a buck or bull.

Last year I watched a new member of our camp shoot his bull approximately 2 miles away from my position, I had spotted the 2 bulls out feeding in an east facing slope opening morning and I knew Mike was riding his horse up that drainage. About 40 minutes after first spotting the bulls I happen to be watching as one took off running. It crashed about the time as the faint report of his rifle reached me. And then a few seconds later the report of his second shot reached me, which was the shot that caused the bull to drop.

LRH is a great way to hunt, You guys that claim one in 5 elk are lost to LRH don't know much about elk hunting. I would say one in 5 elk are lost to hunters who shoot when they have no business shooting weather it be long or short range.

And in all reality, weather short or long, elk are going to be lost on the rare occasion that;
Your bullet fails to penetrate, you shoot thru brush and get a deflection, your excited and rush a shot, your scope got knocked goofy when you fell off the horse/rock/log/ect., you shoot free-hand after climbing 200 verticle and your heart is racing, There are nearly millions of reasons that an animal could be injured or lost, we all try and minimize that from happening no matter how we hunt. So lighten up on true qualified Long Range Hunters. The guy who is slinging lead at 600 yards free-hand is not a LRH. Don't confuse him for someone who is practiced in the skill set.

By the way i sent out a couple 3 shot groups with my newly tweaked edge load that are in the 1.5"-2" for 3 at 600 yards. I am ready to hammer a big buck or bull way out there!

 

[Trapper243]

Jim See, the way you are long range locating is something many of us do, even with bows. So I don't think you can say that is a LRH thing. The biggest issue I see is lack of real practice. Most don't for whatever reason, and the calibers needed for maximum ranges are not cheap to shoot, or known for long barrel life. That said, it can be done. Some will always push the envelope and some are very good at it. The trouble with big animals is they have a lot of non vital tissue compared to a small one like a prairie dog. The limiting factor mechanically seems to be bullet velocity. Most bullets need 1800 fps minimum to expand.

 

[dakor]

For 800 yards or less and a non magnum I would look at a 6.5-284, 284 win, 280 rem or 30/06. Any of those with good high BC bullets and a good shooter will get the job done.

 

[Romulus]

Not being arrogant at all, but if I had a good place to shoot from I would take a shot on a bull at 8 with my .284 with 180 Berger Hybrids unless wind had me spooked. I wouldn't do it from sitting position to get over Sage or from a truck hood like some do. I would rather hit an elk harder or closer, say, with some 230 .30 Berger Hybrids. I would not take the shot if alone or if I even doubted a bit that I could follow my shot to see impact.

Sometimes 5-800 is as close as you can get to Elk and that's when practice and experience comes into play more than Roy's, RUMs, or Lazzer rifles. As a note, I never take a hunting shot I have not replicated or practiced in similar temps or altitudes within the previous month or two. I know the bal comps are pretty good with accurate inputs, but I prefer proofing with chrono and practice over ordering a custom turret, bdc, and factory ammo going out like a TV star.

6.5 x 284 and those cartridges more powerful. I have seen elk taken at range with .257 Wby's but I can't stomach the little pills. I've found too many of them in bone sockets or trapped in fat or skeletal connections. :-\

--- EDIT: Let me add that I see a lot of guys that watch a lot of hunting tv (I haven't watched a show besides fishing in about 6 years) and when we go shoot from 100-1100 they will drop a shot or two and then adjust and hit the intended target once or twice and put their gun up or get ready to shoot further. They ask me why I shoot 20-40 rounds at each range because I have found out all I need to figure. ???

You need to find out what can go wrong, what nuances in posture and platform variances can cause, what you cannot do, and learn the variability over long practice or changing conditions. I practice out to 350 "freehand" and I practice as far as I can shoot within 8" "improvised" every single shot. Whether that is leaning into a tree with bipod legs expanded or from sitting/ kneeling positions I have found I perform similarly. If I miss I move back until I have 100% hits and have found my limit for improvised shooting that season. No exceptions but to get closer.

I got a call from a buddy yesterday who said they shot at 1320. I said, "OK, how did it go? What target? How much vertical dispersion? General group size? Wind?" The answer I got was "Rocks. And I got pretty close." I have 100 more questions but you know...

Don't be the guy that proofs with 1-2 shots. Always practice diagnostically with measurements. Try to shoot paper or keep accurate records or a target book with conditions written down. If you keep your targets you will find you can remember each shooting day when you pull the target out and that helps a lot. Sorry for the rant. ;D LRH is not about the cartridge but of the caliber of one's practice regime.

 

[TC260]

Jim See, the way you are long range locating is something many of us do, even with bows. So I don't think you can say that is a LRH thing.

+1. Spending more time glassing and less time spooking animals is just good hunting technique.

 

[Jim See]

I just got back from my hunt/LV steel match.
I shot a 28" 5x5 mule deer at 439 yards the first day of the season with the 338 edge and 250AB. The deer worked out of the dark timber on a north face right before shooting light expired, he was accompanied by a similar sized buck. after the single shot that punched thru his chest cavity he made a short run and piled up, his partner stood around for another 3 minutes wondering what just happened. The conditions were pretty windy that night so I was glad the shot was on the shorter side. I did see 3 bulls but due to the extended travels I had to do after the hunt I didn't buy an elk tag this year. Greg shot a very old bull with a mess of horn and very few teeth.

I placed 8th at the Las Vegas invitational and qualified for the PRS finalie match in December. ranked 27th.

I didn't mean to imply with my previous post that all short /medium range guys don't use glass. But I did watch at least 8 hunters this year out with no glass ans glassing with there rifle scopes.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

If you can't get closer than 800 yards you need to stop taking that boom box into the woods with you.

 

[Yagingaboy]

I always get a big kick out of these posts. I have seen just as many animals wounded from hunters taking 0-100 yrd running shots at elk that jumped up there pant legs and took off than I have from hunters shooting at animals 700+. Your typical hunter that tries to shoot 600+ yrds with their good old hunting rifle with that 3X9 scope on it will 99% of the time hit nothing but earth. I have shot plenty of animals at 600 yrds+ and never wounded a single one. It can be done but not easily. Shooting LR is no better or worse than any other kind of hunting.

Some people will sit in a tree stand for days on end waiting for an animal to come by. Is that hunting? Some people drive around until they spot animals and either shoot them from the road or a little ways off the road. Is that hunting? Some people bait animals with game food plots and wait for the animals to come into the plots. Is that hunting? Some people go buy tags from land owners and hunt on their closed fenced property. Is that hunting? Some will spend countless days busting the brush and walking every gated road in the country. Is that hunting? The answer to all these questions is yes, they are all hunting techniques.

The point is, some people like to hunt one way or another. To each his own. You just have to gear yourself and train for the type of hunting you are going to do. That is what matters. They are all just as successful to those that prepare for what they will encounter.

To the OP, out to 1000 yards you can be VERY successful with a 7MM in either Rem Mag, WSM, or RUM with the 168 or 180 bergers. A 338 RUM, EDGE, Lapua are also great rounds for elk. The 30-378 weatherby with the 210 bergers is also a fantastic choice. Shooting elk at 800 yards is very doable. I don't care what any of the nay sayers think.

 

[model 12 toby]

best explanation yet. been shooting 715 lately right in the middle of the day with my 6.5x47 lapua when wind is worst. it's tough. I think it can be learned though. just shooting 123's going to move up to 140's. not shooting any elk with it just saying.