Elk calibers

[Bc'z]

Here we go again.....

Killing at long range is just that killing.
Sure as hell ain't hunting in my book.
Dont get me wrong I'm happy you fellas got nice bulls.
But next time why not try leaving all that fancy shit at home,and try matching wits with your prey. Now that's hunting.
There's a few units here in western Oregon that are pretty easy draws for 3pt or better that hold some really nice bulls.
Come give it a shot and tell us all how easy it wasnt.
Now im gonna double check n make sure im not forgetting anything, as I'm heading over to 1 of those units now.
Have fun

 

[ryanjay11]

Killing at long range is just that killing.
Sure as hell ain't hunting in my book.
Dont get me wrong I'm happy you fellas got nice bulls.
But next time why not try leaving all that fancy shit at home,and try matching wits with your prey. Now that's hunting.
There's a few units here in western Oregon that are pretty easy draws for 3pt or better that hold some really nice bulls.
Come give it a shot and tell us all how easy it wasnt.
Now im gonna double check n make sure im not forgetting anything, as I'm heading over to 1 of those units now.
Have fun

Did you know that you can kill stuff at short range and long range if you have the skill to do it?

This cracks me up, because I've killed plenty of stuff under 100 yards, including this blacktail right in your backyard.



I shot this black bear at 79 yards with this same rifle. Should I have got closer?


Good luck on shooting a bull. You admitted earlier in this thread that you've never done it, so some real world calibers/bullet experience would be great to hear about after your trip, since that is the entire purpose of this thread. BTW, these were both shot with the same 200-ELDX load(for the OP, who might actually care).

any one has any real world experience with smaller calibers on ELK? If so what caliber's and how far have you made real world kills..I'm talking like 260 rem, 6.5 creedmoor, 308 Win..... etc...mid sized calibers...Thanks for your input....

Sure does, curiosity creates questions, questions create conversation, conversation creates the ability to learn from others.

I'm seriously considering building a 300norma, and if I go this route it would definitely be my choice over the 06'.
That said, I've hunted elk for close to 20 years. Never killed one either.
It's a different hunt altogether when you use a bow. Getting to within 40 yards is tough.
I've called big ass scratchin bulls into some really close range, under 20 yards and not have a shot due to brush or cows standing in the way.

I'd just like to see a picture of you holding a nice elk smiling, happy with the way you killed it and not worried about someone else.

 

[rammac]

I usually let responses like this ride, but I thought - WOW, how insulting and you insulted my friend and guide who was a long time elk hunter and Palma shooter from Colorado. I don’t know how many times I have responded here to help people out with either shooting and hunting and I get reminded by some members like you how little I know about each! I have hunted all over the US and Canada for 46 years and have shot high level competition for 37 years. And not done too badly at either I might ad. It is mainly what I have done for most of my 52 years. About your post. For one, a mid chest shot is not in the stomach, liver or intestines. I did not say anything about the elk quartering away. A mid chest shot is in the lungs, over the heart a few inches. Even with a chest shot it takes takes a few minutes for the blood to fill the lungs up with blood before the elk collapses. In this case, I was explaining how he got adenoline flowing in the mean time and was able to keep going. As someone here said, elk have an amazing will to live. As far as “poor bullet placement” you refered to. Yes, It was not perfect in the heart, but this was 1990, before most people had range finders. I said the shot was 350-400 yards with a 300 Win Mag. That was an educated guess, and the guy shooting was not the most experienced. Yes, there were 23 shots fired. But, the elk was traveling through aspens and pines on a moutainside 400 yards away. Yes, some missed, but some bullets probably hit trees and limbs. And “ the guide was not much of a guide by finishing the elk off with a neck shot”? We were still 400 yards away and did not want to ruin any more meat. And when were chest shots “totally useless”? I must be outdated? You need to school me on this? I really dont get your comments. Or I have really never known what I am doing?
We were hunting on high pressured, mountain, public land. Not on a ranch or prairie. We rode horse back 5 miles before daylight to get to the mountain top. We were lucky to even see a bull. Shots were hardly ever perfect where I would trust a small caliber. Lots of times the elk were grazing on an opposide mountainside. Very few areas could you see an elk in the “wide open”. There were trees and limbs in front of them. The guide said at 400 yards it may look like a a good shot but you may be shooting through an aspen sapling or spruce limb. In my opinion the high velosity small calibers everyone now raves about would splatter on a limb and possibly hit and wound an elk. I will take a slower .338 210-250g slug to get through stuff you dont see to hit and penetrate deeply in an elk. Where we hunted you had just seconds to shoot, and like I said, there were never perfect shots. You also may need to take a quartering away shot. Tough to impossible for small calibers even with bonded bullets. Also, if you did not anchor your elk quickly, they would try to get in the thick forest and fallen tree laps where you could not even a horse into to retrieve them. I guess I am a very poor marksman and want to make up with it with a big bore rifle as someone else said, but I will take that same .338 sitting in my safe when my sons get old enough to go with me out West again.
Now please, inform me how wrong, out-dated, and ignorant I am on shooting and hunting! “Peace out” Samuel Hall

I don't really care what amount of experience everybody involved had or how great of a hunter they are, the simple fact is that if you shoot that many times and half the shots are misses and of those that hit most were poorly placed you just simply took shots that you shouldn't have. The bottom line is that some people overrate their abilities when it comes to shooting. And yes, I prefer larger calibers too but to each their own.

Yeah, "Peace out" dude.

 

[Bc'z]

Did you know that you can kill stuff at short range and long range if you have the skill to do it?

This cracks me up, because I've killed plenty of stuff under 100 yards, including this blacktail right in your backyard.

View attachment 1073352

I shot this black bear at 79 yards with this same rifle. Should I have got closer?
View attachment 1073353

Good luck on shooting a bull. You admitted earlier in this thread that you've never done it, so some real world calibers/bullet experience would be great to hear about after your trip, since that is the entire purpose of this thread. BTW, these were both shot with the same 200-ELDX load(for the OP, who might actually care).




I'd just like to see a picture of you holding a nice elk smiling, happy with the way you killed it and not worried about someone else.

Nice buck, I dig the drop tine.
That bear ain't no slouch either.
I got both my blacks 1 @12 yards, 1@ 40yards.
Yeah I was rethinking bout the 300 norma, but realized it truly isn't necessary for my hunting situations.
I'm out

 

[JRS]

Good luck and stay safe, Bc'z

 

[Brians356]

I can almost smell that bear from here. What'd it score out to? As always, can't tell how big it is - wide angle lens and no frame of reference (with hunter sitting well behind) makes anything look twice its actual size.
-

 

[ryanjay11]

I can almost smell that bear from here. What'd it score out to? As always, can't tell how big it is - wide angle lens and no frame of reference (with hunter sitting well behind) makes anything look twice its actual size.
-

The skull measured 19 5/8" and you are correct about the smell. That is hard to forget.

 

[dkhunt14]

Killing at long range is just that killing.
Sure as hell ain't hunting in my book.
Dont get me wrong I'm happy you fellas got nice bulls.
But next time why not try leaving all that fancy shit at home,and try matching wits with your prey. Now that's hunting.
There's a few units here in western Oregon that are pretty easy draws for 3pt or better that hold some really nice bulls.
Come give it a shot and tell us all how easy it wasnt.
Now im gonna double check n make sure im not forgetting anything, as I'm heading over to 1 of those units now.
Have fun

The Indians called poor hunters VEGETARIAN. To me It's all hunting and killing is killing. Matt

 

[Olspark]

Ford, Chevy, Dodge same question, same responses, the debate will go on for a long time.

 

[JFrank]

^^^
I'm the worlds worst damn hunter,
this is no BS I was hunting very slow and quite though a heavily treed area out in the middle of nowhere right it must've taken 2 hours to carefully scan every inch.
Finally decided to head back i lit a smoke when all of a sudden

HEY " PUT THAT OUT came a voice from somewhere

Christ sakes I bout crapped my pants.

 

[JimT]

Did you know that you can kill stuff at short range and long range if you have the skill to do it?

This cracks me up, because I've killed plenty of stuff under 100 yards, including this blacktail right in your backyard.

View attachment 1073352

I shot this black bear at 79 yards with this same rifle. Should I have got closer?
View attachment 1073353

Good luck on shooting a bull. You admitted earlier in this thread that you've never done it, so some real world calibers/bullet experience would be great to hear about after your trip, since that is the entire purpose of this thread. BTW, these were both shot with the same 200-ELDX load(for the OP, who might actually care).




I'd just like to see a picture of you holding a nice elk smiling, happy with the way you killed it and not worried about someone else.

Ryan, Eichler mentioned in that show that you are a competitive shooter, what disciplines do you partake in?

 

[ryanjay11]

Ryan, Eichler mentioned in that show that you are a competitive shooter, what disciplines do you partake in?

I shoot F-Class competitively, and USPSA and Sporting Clays fairly non-competitively.

 

[bigngreen]

I always find it disheartening when another hunter puts down another hunters hunt because they have a different preference of hunting.
As we go though our lives each of us will change in what we view as hunting some will stall out in one place or another. I've lived long enough to see some of my hunting hero's go from epic high country hunters to being in tears at the feeling of actually getting a cow elk with a rifle from a truck.

I've been on more a few last hunts with people and every one of them a few of you would pop your chest and call it killing, I've hunted with little kids from a wagon behind a tractor so we can get them in range of an elk, I've helped carry them to their elk and watch then spend an hour admiring their elk, feeling every inch of a rag heads horns, I watch a little boy hug his elk and cry with his dad because it was the greatest dream hunt they had ever had, it was their last as well.
I've killed bulls so close my arrow just cleared the riser before hitting them and it was just another dead elk to me, no hunt behind it. I've spot and stalked high Alpine mule deer bucks and bow killed them and it was just killing deer. Two of my most treasured hunts were both bulls that ended with a kill at long range! I hunted one lead cow for two years, probably pushing 40 days of hunting and she beat me at every turn. Then the Rocky mountain elk foundation bough an easy access route into the area, and I watched her herd ran down on 4 wheelers by the great elk hunters, she was gutt shot and every bull was shot out of the herd. These were guys who would come unglued for me taking one clean shot a year to fill my elk tag that maybe at 800 or 1000 yards, saying I'm unethical, but gutt shooting a lead cow to hold the herd up so you and your ethical hunting buddies can kill every bull some how is hunting. To me and many of my friends what makes a hunt ethical is how you end it!
If you crawl for a mile buck naked up on a bull with all the skill of an old mountain lion and you gutt shoot him you've done nothing better than some Jack wagon ripping lead across a canyon flock shooting elk, a hunt is a subjective thing, killing something is pretty cut and dried to me, either it was quick, humane and ethical or it was not, I'm very comfortable drawing an ethical line on how someone kills but not so much on their hunt!

 

[GSPV]

Guys:

If you were able to walk up and put a 22 short in the brain, it would kill them.

But, news flash, things go wrong. You can’t get as close as you want. The wind is trickier than your ability to read it. The elk startled as the trigger breaks. Yadda Yadda.

You’d best have some more cartridge to take up the slack. How much more depends on your hunting situation and how risk adverse you are.

 

[JRS]

 

[JFrank]

My Bro BCz
Don't mean no harm to anyone
he just likes doing his killin real close.
Somethin he learned overseas I speck.
Give um a day or two he'll be his cheerful self again
J

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I always find it disheartening when another hunter puts down another hunters hunt because they have a different preference of hunting.
As we go though our lives each of us will change in what we view as hunting some will stall out in one place or another. I've lived long enough to see some of my hunting hero's go from epic high country hunters to being in tears at the feeling of actually getting a cow elk with a rifle from a truck.

I've been on more a few last hunts with people and every one of them a few of you would pop your chest and call it killing, I've hunted with little kids from a wagon behind a tractor so we can get them in range of an elk, I've helped carry them to their elk and watch then spend an hour admiring their elk, feeling every inch of a rag heads horns, I watch a little boy hug his elk and cry with his dad because it was the greatest dream hunt they had ever had, it was their last as well.
I've killed bulls so close my arrow just cleared the riser before hitting them and it was just another dead elk to me, no hunt behind it. I've spot and stalked high Alpine mule deer bucks and bow killed them and it was just killing deer. Two of my most treasured hunts were both bulls that ended with a kill at long range! I hunted one lead cow for two years, probably pushing 40 days of hunting and she beat me at every turn. Then the Rocky mountain elk foundation bough an easy access route into the area, and I watched her herd ran down on 4 wheelers by the great elk hunters, she was gutt shot and every bull was shot out of the herd. These were guys who would come unglued for me taking one clean shot a year to fill my elk tag that maybe at 800 or 1000 yards, saying I'm unethical, but gutt shooting a lead cow to hold the herd up so you and your ethical hunting buddies can kill every bull some how is hunting. To me and many of my friends what makes a hunt ethical is how you end it!
If you crawl for a mile buck naked up on a bull with all the skill of an old mountain lion and you gutt shoot him you've done nothing better than some Jack wagon ripping lead across a canyon flock shooting elk, a hunt is a subjective thing, killing something is pretty cut and dried to me, either it was quick, humane and ethical or it was not, I'm very comfortable drawing an ethical line on how someone kills but not so much on their hunt!

Well, this is a good point. I am not a hunter. I prefer elk meat to beef and my only goal is a cow elk in the freezer every year. Its not for fun, its just meat to me. Close range or long range, what ever presents itself. Thats why I want a rifle that doesnt force me to pass up shots. I really want to keep the freezer stocked.

 

[Brians356]

Guys:

If you were able to walk up and put a 22 short in the brain, it would kill them.

But, news flash, things go wrong. You can’t get as close as you want. The wind is trickier than your ability to read it. The elk startled as the trigger breaks. Yadda Yadda.

You’d best have some more cartridge to take up the slack. How much more depends on your hunting situation and how risk adverse you are.

My cousin married a Coeur d'Alene Indian girl, and learned they favor taking elk with a 22 Mag behind the ear, from close range. He also learned about a tribal custom soon after marriage, when a freshly killed cow elk was deposited on his front lawn just before midnight, and the likely lads cheerfully showed him how to dress it out and fill a freezer.
-

 

[Doug Beach]

.30-06 or .308 will kill them from 0-400 yards, with no drama or difficulty. 165 & up bonded bullet.
I’ve killed 3 with an -06/180, from 250-350 yards, 1 bullet each, one went 20’.

Add one more bullet, one more elk, as of today. .30-06, 190 Nosler ABLR.

 

[Evan]

So my OCD is demanding I clarify something:

Muzzle energy can be most closely expressed as mass × velocity × velocity.

Momentum is mass × velocity

Most people misrepresent their intuitive understanding of momentum as energy. The slow heavy bullet vs fast light bullet is usually an argument about momentum, not energy.

My viewpoint: mass stays with a bullet all the way to the animal. Velocity is a depreciating asset.

A 30-06 with 180s has been used for a long long time and since I have one, that's what I would use.

On the philisophical side: It's my grandpa's rifle. Every time I shoulder it, it's a direct connection to all my memories of him and they flood back in. Carrying it in the mountains feels like an honor to him and to the hunting he loved to do. If the shot isn't right, I don't take it. He wouldn't approve. My dad wouldn't approve. I don't approve. The money, effort, and time invested does not decide if I pull the trigger.