Electronic Scale Drift

[Irv Benzion]

In the past there has been several discussions that refered to electronic scales drifting. But there has never been a post relating to exactly how much drift we are talking about. Do the above mentioned scales drift .1 of a grain, two tenths or some indeterminate number? I have an older Ainsworth made by Denver Instruments one of the first electronic reloading scales and it will sometimes gain a .1 and I wondered if that is what the rest of you are experiencing.

Thanks,
Irv Benzion

 

[jlow]

Although electronic scales for reloading can now be found that are very reliable, the earlier ones were more troublesome. I currently use a GemPro 250 which can accurately weigh down to 0.04 grain. The normal drift of this scale would be in the 0.02 to 0.04 grain range.

 

[Leaddog]

GD503 - Zero drift.

 

[brian427cobra]

Balance beam, zero drift.

 

[fdshuster]

Ditto for brian427cobra's comment. No setup and warmup time, no drifting, problems with house current versus battry powered, no microscopic circuits to fail, etc. etc.

The simple mechanical beam scale has been around for centuries. They got it right the first time.

I've tried numerous electronic scales over the last 5 years, all big names with a lot of highly rated reports by users, but for me drifting and false readings were an on going problem.

Using a stop watch to compare loading times for electronic versus the beam scale, and the electronics always took more (in some cases much more) time to load the same number of cases.

Takes me an average of 12 to 15 minutes to weigh 20 charges and that includes setup and put away times. The RCBS 505 & 1010 have been ever reliable.

To each his own in their choice of weighing powder, whichever works best for you.

 

[Immike]

Electronic scales can be a pain some days. I've had trouble when the temperature gets too hot or cold in my shop. My cordless phone must be kept away from my Lyman scale or you will pull your hair out trying to get it to behave. Somehow radio waves effect that scale. I have marks on my reloading bench to place my 2 scales where they are to set at arms length away from me so I don't sit too close to them. Mike

 

[40X Guy]

I have an A&D-FX120i that is near about 700 dollars, and it would drift slightly. I first bought it thinking that maybe spending more money would net me a scale that would not drift, but I was wrong. A few things I found out after reading on here and trying different things. First thing I do is turn the scale on at least 4-6 hours before use, then my reload room needs to be a decent temp as in 65-75 degrees. I bought a power line conditioner to plug the scale into, and then I started turning off the TV/computer in my load room, and the final biggest thing that helped the most was turning off my flourescents overhead and I actually use a cordless rechargable LED mechanics light above my scale for the only lite that i need. The room is dark pretty much, but I can see the scale fine. My wife thought I was nuts the first time she came out and saw me working in the dark. But now the scale works perfectly and zero drift along with speeding things up considerably. A lot of these scales were designed to work in labs in ultra calm and clean conditions.

Frank

 

[boltfluter]

I have an A&D-FX120i that is near about 700 dollars, and it would drift slightly. I first bought it thinking that maybe spending more money would net me a scale that would not drift, but I was wrong. A few things I found out after reading on here and trying different things. First thing I do is turn the scale on at least 4-6 hours before use, then my reload room needs to be a decent temp as in 65-75 degrees. I bought a power line conditioner to plug the scale into, and then I started turning off the TV/computer in my load room, and the final biggest thing that helped the most was turning off my flourescents overhead and I actually use a cordless rechargable LED mechanics light above my scale for the only lite that i need. The room is dark pretty much, but I can see the scale fine. My wife thinks I'm nutsthe firsat time she came out and saw me working in the dark. But now the scale works perfectly and zero drift along with speeding things up considerably. A lot of these scales were designed to work in labs in ultra calm and clean conditions.

Frank

Some good advice Frank. I will give it a try. Thanks.

Paul

www.boltfluting.com

 

[jlow]

In the past there has been several discussions that refered to electronic scales drifting. But there has never been a post relating to exactly how much drift we are talking about. Do the above mentioned scales drift .1 of a grain, two tenths or some indeterminate number? I have an older Ainsworth made by Denver Instruments one of the first electronic reloading scales and it will sometimes gain a .1 and I wondered if that is what the rest of you are experiencing.

Thanks,
Irv Benzion

As usual, this type of thread turns into electronic vs. balance beam – LOL! I think the OP just wanted to know what amount of drift is reasonable.

 

[texasleftychef]

Other than minimal drift (max .04) the only other issue I have encountered with GemPro 250 is temperature. I found that if it gets too cold, it no longer functions properly.

 

[jlow]

Been out reloading at the range in the cold? It's been pretty cold here too... Was yours running on battery? How cold was it?

 

[edlongrange]

From Lynn:

"Irv:

Nice to see you away from the big boomers.

I have a couple electronic scales and they drift all over the map when first turned on.I would say they drift 15 grains on average sometimes more sometimes less.

If left on for several hours the drift is 0.008 - 0.012 grains.

If you leave them plugged in but not turned on for several days drift is often times non-existent but I still hit the zero function about every 30 rounds mostly out of habit.

The single biggest cure seems to be the amount of time plugged in regardless if the machine is on/off.

Lynn"

 

[jlow]

With the GemPro, you only have to plug it in for about 30 min before you use it. The new electronic balance do not really need that much "warming up". The key is to do both calibrations befor you use it.

 

[Immike]

One thing I would like to add to this thread is that I write the grain weight of the calibration weight right on the scale in permanent marker and the pan weight is inside the pan for a constant check of the calibration. Mike

 

[Old Navy]

My Pact used to drift up as much as .4 over fifteen minutes when I first turned it on in my 45 degree garage with the 100K BTU furnace running. About the time I was done building my test loads it would stabilize. I have since moved my reloading equipment in the house. All is well after a short ten minute warmup. Another point worth mentioning: I never could calibrate it properly out in the garage. Can in the house. One more point worth mentioning: The scale must be perfectly level. I have a Chargemaster now so I decided to sell the Pact. I wanted to make sure it was working OK so I set it next to the Chargemaster. Warned them up for ten minutes and calibrated both. A half hour later they were both reading zero. I have a 5-0-5 to check my Chargemaster. Later! Frank

 

[Irv Benzion]

Thanks so much for all of your input. The instructions that came with my scale said to leave in turned on all the time. The unit will drift plus or minus one tenth of a grain. The drift may or may not occur. It is not constant. I watch the readout and know the amount of weight with pan removed. If I spot drift I re-zero. It would appear that my "old scale" is therefore somewhat within acceptable tolerances. It appears that leaving the thing on all the time might be the answer. Mine has been on over 25 years (knocking on wood).

Thanks again for the information.

Irv Benzion

 

[Webster]

I did an experiment once at work with a laboratory quality balance. I think it went to 5 decimal places. I knew static would influence the balance. We have tile floors at work and there was no obvious static problem like getting sparks when you touch something. We wear gloves a lot because we weigh chemicals. I tried weighing the same sample wearing latex, Nitrile and carbon filled anti static gloves. I cannot remember the numbers but the settling time for latex and Nitrile gloves was at least five times longer than carbon filled anti static gloves. The settling time was clearly related to how long it took to discharge static transfered from the gloves to the balance. I think the final results were similar? You can buy anti static gloves on Amazon. Probably expensive for a box. You should be able to reuse them.

 

[Immike]

I did an experiment once at work with a laboratory quality balance. I think it went to 5 decimal places. I knew static would influence the balance. We have tile floors at work and there was no obvious static problem like getting sparks when you touch something. We wear gloves a lot because we weigh chemicals. I tried weighing the same sample wearing latex, Nitrile and carbon filled anti static gloves. I cannot remember the numbers but the settling time for latex and Nitrile gloves was at least five times longer than carbon filled anti static gloves. The settling time was clearly related to how long it took to discharge static transfered from the gloves to the balance. I think the final results were similar? You can buy anti static gloves on Amazon. Probably expensive for a box. You should be able to reuse them.

The static in our bodies effects the electronic scales considerably. I keep mine at arms length away and pull my hands back while it weighs. I weld for a living and static is a problem. When I reach for the pan after it settled I get an obvious reaction to my static. Mike

 

[Scott Harris]

Static effects the lower-priced scales (<$1K), but it is easy to deal with. Electronic labs have to deal with static discharge all the time and there are well-established procedures for dealing with it. Just google ESD, ESD prevention, etc.

I have personal experience with the Acculab VIC-123($350) and the Sartorious GD503($1K). BOTH SCALES worked extremely well for me. But I DO pay attention to proper grounding/static control, surge protection, and creating a stable phyiscal environment(wind, heat, humidity). The GD503 weighs the charge a bit faster and drifts very little...eliminating the need for constant re-zeroing during a session. That said, the VIC-123 was just as reliable if I followed the procedure below.

My VIC-123 procedure:

1. Work in a properly grounded environment: table, equipment, person and make sure the scale has a good quality surge protector.
2. Let the scale warm up for 20-30 minutes
3. Place powder pan #1 on the scale and make sure it is zeroed out and stable. If it is not stable, it either has not warmed up or you have problems with static, wind, etc.
4. Throw a charge into powder pan #2 and then pour this into pan #1 on the scale.
5. Trickle up to final weight directly on the scale. The GD scale settles quite a bit faster than the VIC, but both are accurate.
6. Pour charge into case and place pan #2 back on scale. I use two powder pans because this allows time for the scale to re-zero with pan #2 while I am throwing the next charge with pan #1. This way I can see whether the empty powder pan has re-zeroed before each and every throw.
7. Throw the next charge into pan #2 and repeat the process
8. Once in a while use a check-weight to verify that the scale is spot on after being zeroed repeatedly....it always was.

Sartorius GD503 procedure:
1. Make sure everything is properly grounded, surge protector, etc.
2. Warm up the scale for 15 minutes
3. Calibrate and zero with the single powder pan to be used.
4. Throw the powder, weigh, and trickle up
5. Re-zero every 20-30 minutes if needed: maximum drift over a one hour session is less than .015 grains....usually when I don't let it warm up.

I have heard some folks recommend that you keep your scale always plugged in and turned on. While this may eliminate the need to warm up your scale, I feel this is a BIG mistake. Your expensive scale is exposed to damaging surges in the electrical grid whenever it is connected to said grid. Over time, expensive electronic equipment can be destroyed by the constant barrage of mini-surges and larger surges that occur in most power grids. The best way to protect your equipment is to completely disconnect it from the power source when not in use. Now, the next response people will give is "I'm ok, I have everything plugged into a power strip/surge protector. My response is, "if you want to rely on a surge protector, you better make sure you have a good one that will continue to function over time." MOV-based surge protectors (what most people are using) degrade and fail over time. Check this one out if you want a real surge protector: http://www.brickwall.com/pages/no-failures

 

[texasleftychef]

Been out reloading at the range in the cold? It's been pretty cold here too... Was yours running on battery? How cold was it?

I haven't tried it at the range as I reload everything in the garage at home. I used to leave it plugged in all the time at my reloading bench with no problems. Recently I began to notice problems at times when reloading. At first I thought it was broken so I decided to read on the website to see if there might be an explanation before I sent it back for warranty repair.

They have numerous explanations on what can go wrong. I believe they said most of the problems were with the ac adapter. So I took the adapter out and put in fresh batteries to see if it would work. Still had problems so I looked further and found that the temperature range is supposed to be 65-85. It just so happens that my garage has been getting colder than frequently in the garage.

I moved the powder portion of reloading into the house and recalibrated. Haven't had any problems since.