Electronic precision scale

[eddyverhoeven]

I intend to buy Sartorius Entris scale and I'm hesitating between the 153-1S (1mg - 0.015 grains - linearity 0.03 grains) and the 64-1S (0.1mg - 0.0015grains - linearity 0.003 grains)

My questions are:

*How much accuracy is really needed for precision reloading?
*Do sartorius scale drift under normal room conditions? If so which model is more prone to i?
*internal or external calibration model
*Recommendations/warnings/complaints by shooters using these scales?

Ed

 

[Matt in Virginia]

FWIW & IMHO,
Not even a horse race. The Sartorius 64-1S is the more PRECISE of the two and frankly the scale intended for our purpose. I've owned one for going on a year and I'm very pleased with its performance. Precision, Accuracy, and Repeatability have been excellent. Build quality is typical of the Germans...

1. Forget the 153-1S. It is a less PRECISE scale in that you only have three digits behind the decimal in grams and two when converted to grains. The point of going to Sartorius 64-1S is the extra PRECISION, whatever you are going to do with it, over the A&D Balance. The A&D FX 120i IS supported by Auto Trickler if you are in that price range. Japanese Company Scale made in South Korea. Good balance for the money...

2. The Auto Trickler ONLY works with the Sartorius GD-503(old model) and the 64-1S. Food for thought. http://www.autotrickler.com

3. Plugged in I have not noticed drift, once warmed up, on an empty platen unless there are air currents or vibration. If there is a weight on the platen then YES it will drift over time. This is what the tare button is for...respectfully.

4. I was WRONG, they do make an internal calibration version called the 64i-1S and it runs $1432.44 versus $999.51 for the standard 64-1S. Buy the 50-gram Troemner Class 1 weight he offers at the time of sale which will put you at $1060.51. I apologize for the bum dope the first time around. Nearly a year and sometimers struck...;-)..

http://scaleman.com/ $999.51 with free shipping. You can also check out with Paypal Credit with the 6 month 0% deal...

Regards, Matt.

 

[rardoin]

Eddy, I respectfully disagree with Matt concerning the 153 vs the 64. The 153 has plenty of resolution for highly precise reloading. If you can get within a few kernel weight spread of your target weight I doubt you will see a difference downrange with a higher resolving scale. For the record, I have the 64-S.

I do not see any drift in my 64-S over many hours and in a couple of cases that I failed to turn it off....days. I do run it through a Tripplite line conditioner/surge protector. It will appear to 'drift' 5-15 thousandths of a grain if there is a slight draft and I have learned to ignore it as the amount is less than a kernel of weight....VERY insignificant on target. Do not worry about internal calibration as this raises the price significantly and I only calibrate the scale every month or so or if I move the scale. I calibrate with a weight as mentioned by Matt and it only takes a minute or less. A huge advantage mentioned by Matt is the ability for the scale to drive an Autotrickler.

I do feel that a Gempro 250 is plenty precise enough for precision loading but I could not get very significant drift out of mine hence my decision to raise the bar to a Sartorious product; I have relied on their products in the research laboratory in a former life and was aware of their quality.

I will mention budget at this point. If it is a stretch to buy a top end electronic balance, there are other pieces of reloading equipment that would be important to have before jumping into one of these high end powder scales. If the budget is limited, consider a tuned beam balance as the money saved can purchase other important equipment. JMHO.

 

[Judd]

2. The Auto Trickler ONLY works with the Sartorius GD-503(old model) and the 64-1S. Food for thought. http://www.autotrickler.com

That is the only reason you need. The auto trickler is worth its weight in gold. For that reason I'd say the two you need to compare is the 64-1S and the A&D scales. Seems silly to me to alienate yourself from this awesome tool.

Good luck.

 

[Joe R]

I intend to buy Sartorius Entris scale and I'm hesitating between the 153-1S (1mg - 0.015 grains - linearity 0.03 grains) and the 64-1S (0.1mg - 0.0015grains - linearity 0.003 grains)

My questions are:

*How much accuracy is really needed for precision reloading?
*Do sartorius scale drift under normal room conditions? If so which model is more prone to i?
*internal or external calibration model
*Recommendations/warnings/complaints by shooters using these scales?

Ed

Ed,
I use a SartoriousEntris 64S scale, I have also used the A&D FX120i. They are both very good scales. The Sartorious enables you to measure to 0.001 grains and the A&D to .01 grains. Depending on the kernel size of the powder you are using you will likely end up in the same place. I use Varget (~.02 to .025 per kernel) H-1000 (~.040-.050 per kernel) and H-4831sc (~.040-.050 per kernel). With all of those powder I would get the same results down to +/- 1 kernel. IMO the difference is irrelevant, some may argue otherwise. However, if you're using ball powder or other very fine kernel powder then the extra digit will make a difference.

Regarding the drift, like matt recommended I use a 50-gram Troemner Class 1 weight to calibrate the scale each time I use it. I use cotton gloves to handle the calibration weight, oil from your skin is enough to affect its precision.

The thing about the Sartorious is that it is very sensitive, any air current, cell phone, car opener, magnet or power spike will affect it. I had a bad power supply that made it drift a lot. Once I got a new power supply the problem went away. Mine is plugged in to an UPS (uninterupted power supply ~$50 ) so that power is properly filtered. I also use LED lighting and you have to have a very sturdy table, and even then I can't touch it without the scale being affected. Bottom line is that you have to develop good technical habits, you can't treat any precision tool like a hammer and you can't behave like a bull in a china shop.

The bottom line is: if you have the money to spare then the extra precision of the Sartorius won't hurt, but may help. If cash is tight then the sensible thing to do is buy an A&D and consider yourself lucky.

Kindest regards,

Joe

 

[Toejoe12]

Take a look at the Sartorius Practum 213 as well. This is an updated scale with touch screen technology. Starting to become very popular in the F-Class circles and is in the same price range as the others mentioned here.

Currently the auto trickler by Adam is not available for this model but I've heard he is working on that interface (rumor at a match this past weekend) due to the recent popularity in this scale. The scale is an external calibration and requires a 100 to 200 weight. Amazon has class 1 (no certification) weights for $50 to $80. Don't spend your $$ on certification weights for our purposes. Class 1s will give you more than the accuracy needed for calibration for reloading. Certified weights are needed for regulated industries such as lab work, pharmaceuticals etc. where there are guidelines/laws present. The scale can be found for $868 at discount scales for the next 4 days while on sale. I've had one for 2 months now and couldn't be happier. I've only loaded Varget and H4350 with it thus far but the accuracy is amazing. Prior I was using RCBS Chargemaster to a bar scale and had my ES/SD's in the 19 and 8 range using 30 cal Berger 185 Jug, 200 Hybrids, and 200-20X. My ES/SD's are now consistently running 14/5. All measured with LabRadar over multiple range sessions. We've had a very mild winter in KY this year. I don't bother with calibration of the RCBS any longer. Just zero out and throw .1 low charge and drop in kernels with Dandy trickler. Easy math to know kernel count short and count as drop in. Scale hasn't missed yet. As mentioned Varget is .02 per kernel. When I get in my groove I can keep up with the RCBS and at times I'm waiting on it to finish throwing the next load

Ultimately it will come down to what your personal preference's are between the scales mentioned in this thread so far. You can't go wrong with any of them if you've decided to spend this level $$ on a scale. Kinda like comparing Nightforce and March scopes, opinions vary but you'll be very happy with either if you're accustomed to lesser quality brands. My 2 cents worth. Hope this gives some more insight/perspective for you.

 

[eddyverhoeven]

Thanks a lot for the info.

After throwing the basic charge with an RCBS Chargemaster I weigh the charge on an Acculab VC 123. Because of its constant drifting (regardless of the precautions I take) it is proverbial pain in .. ... I really need something better therefor my question

Although the price is not an issue I think either the 153-1S or the Practum 213 are accurate enough (0.02grain linearity) for my purpose, I'm still on the fence about which one to choose. Most of my shooting is done at 300 to 400 meters (+ a few times per year at 600 and none at 1000 yards). As a 300 meter prone (ISSF) competitor I load larger volumes of cartridges per session so weighing speed has some importance to me.

Good shooting

Ed

 

[Twoboxer]

OP, I'll repeat something said before . . . whichever scale you choose, you'd be best to get one compatible with the Autotrickler. That means: A&D FX (and FZ) 120i / 200i / 300i. Also A&D HR-100A and 700CT. Sartorius GD503 and Entris 64-1S.

I think it's fair to say more of us have the A&D FX120i than any other scale because it's more than adequate and far less expensive.

With the Autotrickler, you'd have a "Chargemaster" that's precise and actually works. Instead of throwing low and trickling up, you just throw.

 

[kvd]

Hi Ed,

I use the Sartorius Entris 64-IS and like it a lot. That said, only rarely will I hit the exact weight I'm looking for to the thousandth of a grain due to the fact that most powders weigh from 20 to 50 thousandths of a grain per kernel - as Joe mentioned. Practically speaking, the Gempro 250 is accurate enough but is just to small. I can't get the lid to close on the weighing pan I use and it will not weigh accurately with the top lid open.
Any scale that will accurately and precisely weigh to a hundredth of a grain is plenty accurate.

Ken

BTW, I've been meaning to mention this. For anyone that wants to add a ± symbol to their text - hold down the ALT key and type 241 on the number pad. Must use the number pad as the old ASCII code will not work on the numbers above the letters.