I think its all shot placement. A buddy has lost 1 muel deer to the 140 eldm in a 6.5 prc and had 2 cow elk that took more than 1 round to kill them. They would not go down. I have shot 2 javelina with the 108 eldm in a 6 creed. One was through the heart DRT. Another was a little lower. He went down but took about 8 seconds. He went behind a bush so could not shoot again.