Educate me on Bat actions

[Keith Glasscock]

I'm looking for information about how best to spec an upcoming project. Considering the timeline, I'll probably be needing to order the action soon.

On a Bat action, I'm wanting to build a 284 based F-open rifle. I've read about the optional recoil lug on Bat actions and really have a simple question:

Do I need a recoil lug for this cartridge? I know what the XP cut is, but is it enough for something with this much recoil?

Likewise, will a "B" be good enough, or should I go with a "MB"?

If it makes a difference, I'm planning on running a 30-32" straight barrel @ 1.25 (depending on weight considerations).

I really want user and gunsmith input on this. I want to build it right the first time.

Thanks!

 

[hammerjack]

Just give Ray Bowman a call he would be the man to talk to.
336-214-5381

 

[Preacher]

My biggest .284 is a 32" Brux 1.350 screwed into a BAT model M with the integral recoil lug on the bottom, and I couldn't be any happier with the outcome. I doubt I would build one with out the lug for whatever thats worth, as little as they cost I see no good reason not to use one...

 

[morpheus]

Ray Bowman built me a .284 on a Barnard action that I used to win the TN State F-Class championship last weekend, and I know Ray also built Charles Ballard's BAT MB .284 he used to win the 2008 & 2009 Nationals, so I second the suggestion to give Ray a call. Look up Precision Rifle Sales online for more info.

 

[butchlambert]

If I were to build one now it would have a Barnard. Ray Bowman would be a great builder if you need one.
Butch

 

[butchlambert]

Gamma, if I'm too lazy to get my projects in gear, how long do you think the poor soul would have to wait. If I weren't so broke, I would start on a real top notch FTR rifle though.
Butch

 

[Keith Glasscock]

The reason I'm asking is the possibility that I could "harvest" a Bat "B" action (or find one in stock with Bruno or Haydon)

Does anyone know off of the top of their head if the "MB" has a recoil lug standard?

Thanks for the info on Ray Bowman. I have one heck of a great rifle builder - Mike Bryant, but I don't want to waste his (or Ray's) time until I have money in hand to spend. Now all I have to do is sell a car or two...

I'm considering the Barnard as well. I've had a chance to look at the Bat, but I've never seen a Barnard. The issue that I could see with an imported action is having to wait for parts if something were to break. I can probably get a Bat action and parts for them a little easier here.

Thinking about it, what is it about the Barnard that makes it better?

 

[butchlambert]

I don't have an answer yet on why it may be better. I am following advice from Mike Miller, who is team Captain of the World Champion FClass FTR team. I would bet Mac Tilton would be able to keep you in parts. I would seek advice from memilanuk. Monte is a top FClass guy on this forum. Mike Bryant is a top gunsmith and is very honest.
Butch

 

[morpheus]

You could harvest a Barnard from MT Guns (in Santa Barbara) in less than a week, and they provide all the service and parts you would ever need. They cost about the same as the BAT, but they come with an excellent trigger. Also, you can get a stock with a v-block installed and swap out barreled actions quite easily if you want to shoot different cartridges without much fuss (but more money) in one stock. They are just as nicely made as the BAT.

www.mtguns.com

From the website above:
Three locking-lug designs with EASY opening.
Incredibly stiff round receivers are ground after hardening for concentricity.
Super-quick lock time and small diameter firing pin (.062”) are standard; .080” firing pin optional.
Strong Sako-style extractor standard for all models.
1.062” x 16 t.p.i. barrel thread.
Available as LH or RH with any port position; even twin ports!
Plunger-type ejector standard with magazine models, optional with single shot.
Blued 4340 double heat treated steel
Bolt of 8620 nitrided steel

also... http://www.barnard.co.nz/actions.htm

Don't get me wrong, I have both, but I would still recommend you carefully consider the Barnard in addition to the BAT.

 

[Kyle Schultz]

While I acknowledge there is at least 1 famously successful .284 built on a BAT MB action, if asked, Bruce Thom will advise you to use a M action. The .284 are loonnng cartridges and the longer port length of the M is very helpful.

I love my BAT M .284 Shehane. I love my Barnard 6.5x47. The only significant difference in my mind is that the Barnard is blued steel. REALLY wish it was stainless. But Mac Tilton can fix you up essentially overnight with a Barnard and sometimes that can be the deciding factor.

Absolutely cannot go wrong with either one or even one of the other outstanding custom actions like Kelby or Defiance. Good luck!

 

[TonyR]

Whatever you chose, make sure you do a carefull estimate of the weight of your combined parts before you buy your scope or your action. I am working on a new gun built on the full sized round BAT M and a Ray Bowman stock. I know I would have been very limited in my choice of barrel length and/or contours if I didn't have a March scope which is quite a bit lighter than my NF. The BAT Octagon and Multiflat receivers are quite a bit lighter than the big round receiver so that is a consideration.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Weight is a concern for me. I have to decide what is most important. Here is the breakdown:

Bat Action (MB example) 1.53" - 45.5 oz
Barrel (32" - 7mm - 1.250 straight) 10.086 lbs - 161.3 oz
NF 12-42 scope - 36 oz
Bat rings - I don't know, but they are similar to Talley rings. Maybe - 6 oz
Trigger guard - 2 oz
Trigger - 8 oz (estimate)

Total - 16.175 lbs

Stock - McMillan F-class w/3way - 5 lbs

Total - 21.175 lbs - whew! I can even take the extra weight of the M action - maybe

Now I have to figure out if that last 2" of barrel is really worth having. It adds considerable expense and weight while reducing stiffness.
Ballard uses 32" but several other extremely successful shooters don't.

 

[RAGGED]

Weight is a concern for me. I have to decide what is most important. Here is the breakdown:

Bat Action (MB example) 1.53" - 45.5 oz
Barrel (32" - 7mm - 1.250 straight) 10.086 lbs - 161.3 oz
NF 12-42 scope - 36 oz
Bat rings - I don't know, but they are similar to Talley rings. Maybe - 6 oz
Trigger guard - 2 oz
Trigger - 8 oz (estimate)

Total - 16.175 lbs

Stock - McMillan F-class w/3way - 5 lbs

Total - 21.175 lbs - whew! I can even take the extra weight of the M action - maybe

Now I have to figure out if that last 2" of barrel is really worth having. It adds considerable expense and weight while reducing stiffness.
Ballard uses 32" but several other extremely successful shooters don't.

Out of curiosity, where did you get the weight for the bbl? I drew a chambered, crowned and threaded 1.25" 284 bbl in CAD and it came out to be 10.65 when using 316ss, that’s at 32", also don't forget your hardware and a heat shield.

 

[TonyR]

Weight is a concern for me. I have to decide what is most important. Here is the breakdown:

Bat Action (MB example) 1.53" - 45.5 oz
Barrel (32" - 7mm - 1.250 straight) 10.086 lbs - 161.3 oz
NF 12-42 scope - 36 oz
Bat rings - I don't know, but they are similar to Talley rings. Maybe - 6 oz
Trigger guard - 2 oz
Trigger - 8 oz (estimate)

Total - 16.175 lbs

Stock - McMillan F-class w/3way - 5 lbs

Total - 21.175 lbs - whew! I can even take the extra weight of the M action - maybe

Now I have to figure out if that last 2" of barrel is really worth having. It adds considerable expense and weight while reducing stiffness.
Ballard uses 32" but several other extremely successful shooters don't.

Out of curiosity, where did you get the weight for the bbl? I drew a chambered, crowned and threaded 1.25" 284 bbl in CAD and it came out to be 10.65 when using 316ss, that’s at 32", also don't forget your hardware and a heat shield.

Don't know where Busdriver got his number but Dan Lilja has a weight calculator on his website that seems pretty accurate:
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making/benchrest_weight_calculation.htm

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I used Lilja's calaculator...

 

[TonyR]

I used Lilja's calaculator...

Great minds think alike! You could save an ounce by using a BAT aluminum trigger guard. That is what I plan to do with mine. You can also get a lot of weight out of those ajustable buttplates with a little careful "Swiss Cheesing" I know I'll be doing a lot of that also. I am going to use one of Ray Bowman's stocks and the blank weighs 4.5 lbs but I expect to trim it a bit as well. I'll probably put it together in the Fall after I decide what calibers I want to chamber for it.

 

[Phil]

Bat model "M".

 

[wapiti25]

Why not taper the barrel to make weight? Do you need that much muzzle weight?

 

[holstil]

I have a 284 Shehane built on a BAT M and feel this is the proper size action for the job. I had a BAT B action set up in DAsher that I felt was the right size action for that rig. I love the looks of the BAT actions and will probably hang on to what I have left, but I would consider other actions. My BAT's feel a little sticky due to being SS and not as hard as other actions, as in if you try to cycle the bolt by just holding the bolt knob they tend to hang up disturbing the bags. Polishing has helped but I still find myself having to push in with my thumb and pull close to the bolt body. Not what I'd expect to have to do on a $1200 + action. Plus you better never forget lug lube with stiff loads.


I felt one of Joel Kendricks BAT's that had been Melonited and that was slick, but there goes that pretty finish. I'd like to get my hands on a Farley or a Banard to see how slick those are. Chrome moly might be the way to go. I think Farley is back to casting their ss actions again. So far, it's a Remington 700 that's been the best action I've ever felt as far as slick and tight. I think Mike Davis worked it up.


FWIW, I had to lop off a 1.25 str. to 24.5" to get my M to make weight with a light scope. I had a 30" HV barrel on it to make weight before. I don't feel a need for recoil lugs on these models.

Jim