Ease of bolt lift after firing

[Shooter13]

Watching a video of someone running like 10 shots (posted here a couple of days ago) and noticed how easy it was to lift the bolt to eject the case. I've NEVER had anywhere close to that in Bordens, BATS and a Hall. I'm pretty sure the poundage of the spring on the firing pin might play a role but what else causes the heavy lift? A little insight to a trouble mind might ease the thoughts!
Thanks,
Shooter13

 

[Rocketvapor]

Here's a single shot from a F-Class Savage (notorious for heavy lift).
Bolt cocking ramp mod, firing pin spring change, trigger mod, and Carbide against Silicon Nitride bolt lift mod.
Not as light as some bench rest guns but a lot better than a stock Savage.

 

[Shooter13]

Here's a single shot from a F-Class Savage (notorious for heavy lift).
Bolt cocking ramp mod, firing pin spring change, trigger mod, and Carbide against Silicon Nitride bolt lift mod.
Not as light as some bench rest guns but a lot better than a stock Savage.

What I'd give to have a bolt lift like that!!

 

[Rocketvapor]

I think it's pretty good, considering it's a Savage
Wife likes it but she is new to bolt guns coming from an AR.
I like experimenting and playing with parts.

 

[Shooter13]

You would think that your BATs and Bordens would do this without additional cost!!

 

[wedgy]

If you have the bolt bushed on a Savage or 700 they also turn down the firing pin and lighten the spring which helps a lot.
@boltfluter
@Grimstod

 

[JFrank]

You would think that your BATs and Bordens would do this without additional cost!!

Some do, mines pretty smooth but I won’t sacrifice ignition for bolt lift.

 

[Shooter13]

Some do, mines pretty smooth but I won’t sacrifice ignition for bolt lift.

Good point, maybe we can get @Alex Wheeler to school us some on this.

 

[Evan]

Watching a video of someone running like 10 shots (posted here a couple of days ago) and noticed how easy it was to lift the bolt to eject the case. I've NEVER had anywhere close to that in Bordens, BATS and a Hall. I'm pretty sure the poundage of the spring on the firing pin might play a role but what else causes the heavy lift? A little insight to a trouble mind might ease the thoughts!
Thanks,
Shooter13

I think something is wrong with your actions. My two Bordens, a BR and a BRL, both open and close smooth. Jim Borden built both rifles though. I didn’t buy the actions separately.

 

[Shooter13]

I think something is wrong with your actions. My two Bordens, a BR and a BRL, both open and close smooth. Jim Borden built both rifles though. I didn’t buy the actions separately.

Well you'll have to take that up with @speedygonzalez as he build the Borden BRMXD I have. I will also add I've never had a fire control problem and not sure what # spring is in there but probably should replace it after 4 years.

 

[ShtrRdy]

I'd like to know too. My BAT DS based short range bench gun is smooth but requires a little force to move open and close the bolt.

 

[Shooter13]

I'd like to know too. My BAT DS based short range bench gun is smooth but requires a little force to move open and close the bolt.

Exactly!

 

[nmkid]

My Defiance is super smooth. It makes me grin every time I cycle it.

 

[kris bassett]

I think it's pretty good, considering it's a Savage
Wife likes it but she is new to bolt guns coming from an AR.
I like experimenting and playing with parts.

I'd love more info on the mods you have done to the savage.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I don't think I need to look into bushing the bolt head.
Pin measures 0.0687", bolt head passes a 0.072" (-) pin but not a 0.073"(-) pin.


Pin fall is greater than a stock Savage Bolt. Pin cocking piece counterbored to shorten pin and increase pinfall. See previous picture of stock/modified pin.

This required a little work on the cocking slot.




The small parts shown in my previous post show a "New" style BAS, a 10mm Carbide micrometer tip, a 38cal mod with a Silicon Nitride ball (7/32" and 1/4" balls).
The bearing races are 10mm from ebay (not from a lift kit) and can be inserted under the micrometer tip to increase/decrease spring preload.
The Carbide tip in the new style BAS is 0.080" SHORT. I shaved down BAS length about 0.065". The 38SPL brass case/Ceramic ball can be made from a low of about 0.050" to about 0.090" giving a wide range of added internal preload.


The spring is an EGW Commander flat wound spring with firing pin preload shortened by counterboring the cocking piece about 2 threads.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I am not a gunsmith and this Savage was put together in the kitchen for the wife.
The big parts came from:
SSS for the pretty blue stock, inlet for the Savage as a single shot,
The action from NorthLand,
The 28" SM 1:7, barrel from Shilen, through Northland,
(sent in 3 dummy 22 Nosler rounds loaded a little long with Berger 85.5s)
Small parts from GunShack and Midway.

Most of my bolt gun knowledge came from reading past posts on a couple different forums.
The new style BAS and 10mm micrometer tip is my idea (I think), everything else can be found in old posts. Since it is 0.080" short a bolt lift 38SPL mod can be made with very little change to preload or shimmed up.

I doubt anyone can make a Savage action as smooth as some of the other name brands. All I know is it's one heck of a lot smoother than it was stock.
Ignition with CCI 41's seems fine.

 

[Rocketvapor]

I picked Savage for the wife's gun based on what I could do in our Kitchen Armory without using a real smith. Tried to make the NEW Style firing pin work, contrary to recommendations. Finally gave up on it and went with old style and the adjustable pin.
Went with 22 Nosler as that's what we are stocked up on (both were using 22N AR's).

I think once you smooth action parts and install the Bolt Lift Kit of your choice ( my way is best ) any further reduction in bolt lift will require secrets of an expert with your brand.
That's what I did, find "fixes", some posted years ago.

Bolt lift isn't a real concern for F-Class slow fire. Nice not to be distracted by bolt lift though. Another area Savages get a bad rap is trigger pull. Seems the Accutrigger is a common complaint.
I've got her trigger down to 2oz on the Safety Blade/7oz Total Pull. Trigger has been shimmed to fix Sear falling when you don't want it. As she gets more trigger time with the gun I might drop it a little more but it will NEVER get to 2oz like some triggers.

 

[LHSmith]

A proper FL sizing die adjusted to provide at least 0.001" / 0.002" headspace clearance and cases that are resized EVERY firing and the die is specific to YOUR chamber is absolutely necessary for minimizing bolt lift.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Check Bolt Lift:
Bolt lift with no pin,
Bolt lift with a pin (no case) cocking and cocked,
Bolt lift with a case, cocking a dummy round (for now I fit check EVERY sized case in her rifle),
Bolt lift fired case.
Check for primary extraction of a fired case.

 

[JMayo]

I too have wondered about this. Watching Sam & Scottie work their bolt quickly and it seemed to not have that cocking bump. Using their index finger to raise and eject ......
One of my bats have a sharper cock point than the other. I suspect ones had been polished down or maybe wore down, idk.
But to the point, i have to use my thumb on the shroud for leverage and grasp the bolt knob.
Brass not being the issue i suppose polishing the cocking ramp & point might help.