Early barrel tuning

[Alex Wheeler]

Had a discussion tonight that reminded me of a process I used to do with every new barrel. I think it will help some of you find better accuracy faster. I dont ever get serious with tuning until I break 100 rounds so I use those early days to play with things I normally wouldnt waste barrel life on. Day one at the range consisted of 3 different powders. This was a dasher, so Id take rl15, varget, h4895, and sometimes h4350. Just 3 shot groups at shorter range with each powder over its normal working range. The thing I want to stress here is after day one, the powder choice was OBVIOUS. There was always a powder that really stood out. That was the one I would next take 2 or 3 bullets to the range with. That said, I never really struggled tuning a match barrel. By the time you have got though that speed up period, you will know what components to get serious with. Force feeding a barrel something it does not like can be a very frustrating experience. Good equipment does not fight you, and if it is, it aint happy! Change something. I have helped a lot of guys get their rifles tuned through pm, text, email, ext. A simple powder or bullet change will get things on track 9 out of 10 times.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I guess it would help if I tell you what I personally look for. I want to see a combo thats working. As you work powder charge or seating depth you expect to see groups gradually get small, then start to open up, and shrink again (nodes). If a powder doesnt do that, I move one. Sometimes it all looks ugly then there will be a small group here or there. Dont want that. When the barrel likes a powder you can see the groups shrinking, you know the next one will be tiny, and the next one will start to open slightly, and the next one will be vertical, predictable. Random is bad.

 

[BoydAllen]

Charge increment size?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

.2-.3 This is not serious tuning though, its just to get a feel for the components.

 

[Curious]

The thing I want to stress here is after day one, the powder choice was OBVIOUS. There was always a powder that really stood out.

Thats really interesting Alex.

Did you find it was always equally as obvious or did some barrels seem to be less fussy about the powder than others?

Can you explain exactly how the obvious one stood out from the rest if they all showed nodes?

I have seen many times a powder show promise as you describe but then when it came to seating depth tuning it just wouldn't squeeze down as tight as initially expected.

 

[johara1]

Mine is even more simple, with the imp I take my fire form loads to start break in. I will not shoot over copper. You know wha powder worksRL-15 or H4895. I go to the load that shot in the last barrel and it will shoot in this one if it is chambered with the same reamer...... jim

 

[JFrank]

Had a discussion tonight that reminded me of a process I used to do with every new barrel. I think it will help some of you find better accuracy faster. I dont ever get serious with tuning until I break 100 rounds so I use those early days to play with things I normally wouldnt waste barrel life on. Day one at the range consisted of 3 different powders. This was a dasher, so Id take rl15, varget, h4895, and sometimes h4350. Just 3 shot groups at shorter range with each powder over its normal working range. The thing I want to stress here is after day one, the powder choice was OBVIOUS. There was always a powder that really stood out. That was the one I would next take 2 or 3 bullets to the range with. That said, I never really struggled tuning a match barrel. By the time you have got though that speed up period, you will know what components to get serious with. Force feeding a barrel something it does not like can be a very frustrating experience. Good equipment does not fight you, and if it is, it aint happy! Change something. I have helped a lot of guys get their rifles tuned through pm, text, email, ext. A simple powder or bullet change will get things on track 9 out of 10 times.

Mr. Wheeler
With regards to seating depth will you start your testing on the touch of lands or would you select a jam or jump as a baseline or benchmark as I call it.
I' started reloading about 2-3 years ago so I consider myself a novice and most likely will for quite some time however my (original )mentor whom has 40 years of reloading and rifle building knowledge told me to always start on the lands. I had not questioned this until recently.
You probably cover this in a video so forgive me for being lazy.
Just curious
Jim

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Thats really interesting Alex.

Did you find it was always equally as obvious or did some barrels seem to be less fussy about the powder than others?

Can you explain exactly how the obvious one stood out from the rest if they all showed nodes?

I have seen many times a powder show promise as you describe but then when it came to seating depth tuning it just wouldn't squeeze down as tight as initially expected.

When a powder is acting how it should, with predictability its going to work so long as your confident in yourtesting and shooting abilities. We always talk about shooting over flags, but that assumes one can read them. Easier said than done. If you have more than one good looking powder you will need to do a little more testing at distance, but thats a good problem. You could also shoot a few ladder tests early on, I have done it that way too.
I have seen a lot of test targets. Too often they just are not usable. To get any meaningful data out of them they need to be shoot in decent conditions with some way of knowing what the wind is doing.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Mine is even more simple, with the imp I take my fire form loads to start break in. I will not shoot over copper. You know wha powder worksRL-15 or H4895. I go to the load that shot in the last barrel and it will shoot in this one if it is chambered with the same reamer...... jim

Jim,
Yes and no. For someone with a lot of experience thats ok.
I am not a Varget fan but one of my dasher barrels wouldnt shoot anything else. Had I not tried Varget early on, that may have ended up being a "bad barrel" because it hated 15 and H4895. That barrels shot mores 1s at 1k than all my others combined...

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Mr. Wheeler
With regards to seating depth will you start your testing on the touch of lands or would you select a jam or jump as a baseline or benchmark as I call it.
I' started reloading about 2-3 years ago so I consider myself a novice and most likely will for quite some time however my (original )mentor whom has 40 years of reloading and rifle building knowledge told me to always start on the lands. I had not questioned this until recently.
You probably cover this in a video so forgive me for being lazy.
Just curious
Jim

If I have never worked with a bullet I will usually start .005 in. If things look erratic I'll find a decent powder charge and work seating depth before getting serious with testing powder.

 

[johara1]

I had the same experience with Varget and to some extent H4895 with lot to lot variation, RL-15 is very steady. If those two don't work I will change the scope first. Had a lot of experience with bad ones. I never with the exception of one lot of Varget, that would out shoot the other two.... Don't get me wrong Varget will shoot good but not great.... jim

 

[johara1]

I had when shooting the Dasher maybe 20 different barrels all 28" HV. from even different barrel makers all shot the same load, only thing in common was the reamer.... jim

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I had the same experience with Varget and to some extent H4895 with lot to lot variation, RL-15 is very steady. If those two don't work I will change the scope first. Had a lot of experience with bad ones. I never with the exception of one lot of Varget, that would out shoot the other two.... Don't get me wrong Varget will shoot good but not great.... jim

Jim I just dont see it that way. I think there are things some guys do in their process that makes certain powders work for them. Different lots can be like a totally different powder, as you know. Varget and H4895 are really bad. But 15 has some too. For some guys they will pull a barrel if it wont shoot their powder/bullet. Thats ok too. I think its worth one range day to burn though a few and see.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I had when shooting the Dasher maybe 20 different barrels all 28" HV. from even different barrel makers all shot the same load, only thing in common was the reamer.... jim

I dont have a single guy out there shooting the same load in every barrel. I have 100s of them out there and the loads range from one end of the spectrum to the other. I cant agree with this advise. If it works great, but I would never expect that. Now if we could all get the same lot of powder things may be a little different.

 

[johara1]

With out a doubt, I wouldn't give up but I'm not looking for that kind of barrel, I can't seem to find the one's I'm looking for anymore, just good average one's.... jim

 

[Alex Wheeler]

With out a doubt, I wouldn't give up but I'm not looking for that kind of barrel, I can't seem to find the one's I'm looking for anymore, just good average one's.... jim

Jim, just pick up a new Krieger. Barrels have never been better in my experience. Conditions have been lousy this year, but early morning practice groups are smaller than I have ever seen.

 

[johara1]

I dont have a single guy out there shooting the same load in every barrel. I have 100s of them out there and the loads range from one end of the spectrum to the other. I cant agree with this advise. If it works great, but I would never expect that. Now if we could all get the same lot of powder things may be a little different.

Back then I had a stock pile of everything,RL-15 powder and Spencer bullets and they were never banged around on a truck.... lol.... jim

 

[johara1]

Jim, just pick up a new Krieger. Barrels have never been better in my experience. Conditions have been lousy this year, but early morning practice groups are smaller than I have every seen.

I got a couple old Brux that were frozen, a waiting on some Lederer's.... jim

 

[Nature Boy]

Day one at the range consisted of 3 different powders

Alex, when you say "day one" is that day one with a virgin barrel or day one after 100 rounds have been fired?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Alex, when you say "day one" is that day one with a virgin barrel or day one after 100 rounds have been fired?

Back then I did break in, so technically day one was about 8 hours and 10 shoot/clean cycles. So this would actually have been my day 2, with about 10 rounds on the barrel. Today I dont do break in, not because it doesnt work, but because you get the same result it just takes longer so I just shoot them now. But I do keep the round count between cleanings low until the barrel stops coppering.