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Ear muffs - good / not so good

Been shooting seems like forever, and have purchased muffs over the years as new/supposedly better ones came on the market - also purchased a number for children and grandchildren etc.

all grown up and have their own, sooo, I decided to check out the 6 I had, one was "electric" shut off etc.

put each on and fired 45acp, --4 went to the trash can including the battery operated one, two I kept, one slightly better than the other, it is a Peltor twin cup.

consider checking our yours
Bob
 
Depending on what I am shooting, and what is being shot around me, I often opt for so called double coverage, combining foam plugs with muffs. I do this because any of the higher rated muffs end up hitting my rifle stocks, and the thinner ones are not good enough on their own. For that situation, the electronic muffs that you threw away can be ideal, because they allow range commands to be heard when double coverage with ordinary muffs might make that difficult, and some models are thin enough to clear stocks.
 
There have been some really interesting posts on this site in the recent past.
Look up member "NORMMATZEN" and read his posts. He helped me a great deal and he is a wealth of info in this field.
There are quite a few and doing it this way may be the quickest.
 
thanks for the NORMMATZEN input

I use foam plugs with the thin muffs for Trap, the Peltor double for all else, when the rifle stock cause a problem I will go to the thin and add plugs,

The electronic one I tossed was a Dillon, turned off/ on, with and without plugs a bummer.

I kept the Peltor double and a thin peltor and a box of plugs

Bob
 
Plugs and muffs together are the way to go. I like the orange foam plugs that Walmart sells. I had some expensive custom ones made (insurance paid for them) and they are not as good as the foam, and not as comfortable. I have several models of Howard Leight muffs and like them all. Also, the Winchester muffs sold at Walmart are pretty good. I have the low profile Howard Leight electrics. I wear them with plugs and turn them up when I need to hear range commands and back down when the shooting starts. Unfortunately, when shooting my AR and certain other rifles I can only wear plugs because the muffs get in the way, even the low-profile ones.
 
Check these out. http://www.amazon.com/DESIGN-SensGard-Revolutionary-Hearing-Protection-/dp/B000FEW4GE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1402195838&sr=8-2&keywords=sensgard
I have a set that are prototypes of this same model. Put a pair of the 33 db Howard Leight Max under these, that have been properly seated, and you will be quite happy with the quiet ( at least I have been) and there is no clearance problem with any stock that I can imagine. I tried a set (by themselves) as I walked behind the red line during a short range benchrest match at Visalia, and found that I was quite comfortable, and could hear pretty well as well, due to the design. Note the chambers on either side. You can go to their web site for more information.
 
Ya! Here's Norm with his two cents again.

First, assume you have perfect ear plugs in your ears (correctly inserted!). These plugs let in absolutely no sound!!! You will still hear a lot of noise as the Mastoid bone, the bone in the ear area, passes sound with somewhat over 40 dB attenuation plus a steep frequency response that makes any passed sound sound "dead."
So no plug or ear muff gives "perfect" protection.
Second, if you use foam plugs, and insert them correctly, you will have around 40 dB of protection. That is about as good as it gets! Remember, correct insertion is a VERY important thing, poor insertion can reduce the protection to 20 dB or even worse1 They should be rolled up between the thumb and index finger and inserted quickly into the ear canal and held in place with the pinky finger for a few seconds till they completely expand. Now you have adequate protection from gun shot noise, and you will have a hard time hearing any one talking to you, or range officer commands and in addition their voices will sound muffled.

Third, assuming you insert the plugs correctly, there is absolutely no value in adding a pair of Muffs as they don't add protection, remember the mastoid bone. However, if you are hung up on muffs, you better add plugs as the muffs will NOT give adequate protection unless you are extremely lucky and they fit the exact shape of your head. And, yes, they will probably get in the way of shooting a rifle.

You can argue with me all you like about how good your brand X muffs work, but my education and experience (Both electronic engineering and Audiology) have taught me a severe disdain for anecdotal evidence and value in proper clinical and lab testing. A good hint is to look at the NRR rating of what ever plugs and muffs you are using. The reason the NRR system was developed was due to in-correct inserting or wearing of hearing protection devices. The way that number is derived is by taking the best case protection, say 40 dB for yellow foamies, and subtracting the decrease in effectiveness due to various methods of incorrect insertion/wearing and you get NRR. You may find yellow foamies rated all over the map down to the low 20's. You would be amazed how folks will try wearing them in an environment where they are forced to wear them!

If you like the muffs with a competent compressor amplifier built in to give good hearing for soft sounds and protection for loud sounds, then an appropriate addition would be the one size fits most plugs from Etymotic Research. I think they call them Ety-Plugs now. They have a fixed 20 dB attenuation with excellent frequency response (why they cost $10 or so) and in conjunction with the NRR rating of decent amplified muffs make a good solution.

What do I use? I use Etymotic Research Blast Protectors, EB-15. These cost around $300 a pair on the street and are 3 to 5 times cheaper than their digital competition. These analog devices are much better than digital for two very good and basic reasons. 1. the frequency response is way better with the analog devices ( yes, most digital hearing aids have very poor frequency response as better response costs less battery life) and 2. The digital aids have a time delay built in due to the processing time of the digital signal processor used for an amplifier. This delay can really screw up situational awareness. This is why the military and police like these devices. When the enemy is sneaking up behind you, you would like to be able to "hear" where hi is! And, delay robs you of that ability and the Etymotic devices have been exhaustively clinically tested to prove their efficacy!

Too expensive you say? The last NF scope I bought cost me $1300 plus tax and shipping. Oddly, it does nothing to protect my hearing! Isn't your hearing worth $300-$400?
 
One issue that is important to me is the degree of distraction that occurs from the report of my rifles, and those around me as they are fired. I have the perfect instrumentation for that, my ears. Also, I doubt that any of the people who have done published studies have put themselves just a few feet from a rifle of large caliber that is equipped with a muzzle brake, shooting a load that produces a large amount of pressure at the muzzle. My ears tell me that double coverage works noticeably better for these situations than any sort of plugs by themselves, custom (which I have) or 33 db foam, and there are no high db rated muffs that I can use without their hitting stock combs, so they are not an option. The one issue that I have run into with the best foam plugs is that the configuration of the outer part of my left ear canal is such that the best seal is not possible if the plugs are inserted to a depth such that they may be removed without some sort of tool or extension. Luckily, I have figured out a way to pass threads through them so that I can insert them farther, and still be able to remove them easily, and that made a considerable difference in their effectiveness. The hearing protection that I linked to in my previous post combine well with the foam plugs that I mentioned to produce the least distraction from the sound of my rifle's discharge. I have considerable experience with these sorts of things.
 
Like I say Boyd,

I have learned to disregard anecdotal evidence as it NEVER stands up to scientific study.

I, too, have used a lot of different hearing protection starting in the late '50s.

Foamies MUST be inserted to the point you are afraid you won't get them out, then your 33dB rating becomes 40 dB!

I made a mistake on my last entry. The Etymotic blast protector model number is GSP-15. THAT IS WHAT I USE, ALWAYS!
 
I don't do scientific study. Don't pretend to, or feel inferior to it. I have seen too many of them that were later proven to be flawed. It is not that I disregard them, but I definitely don't worship a the church, as it were. In this case, just as when picking stereo speakers, it is my subjective impression is the only thing that really matters to me. If someone tells me that a particular speaker has flatter response than one that I prefer to listen to, I do not switch, but I do make a mental note that evidently I don not like totally flat, colorless speakers. Thanks for the tip about what you use. I find them interesting, and was completely unaware of them.
http://www.etymotic.com/hp/gsp15.html
I will tell my friends who hunt big game a lot, and use muzzle brakes, about them.
 
Norm (or anybody else with experience), I will be receiving my free VA in-the-ear hearing aids this week. I was hoping I could leave them in the ear and turned on while shooting with muffs on. Would this be a mistake?
 
I tried them once and do not like them hanging on the head. I have used ear plugs for years without any problems. I know some who play their music with them. I like comeplete silence.
 
Nomad,
Yes, you may be able to use the aids for hearing protection.

It depends on the style of aid you get from the VA.
If they are In The Ear (ITE) aids, you will noticd there is a hole from the outer part to the inner part right next to the speaker hole. That is a vent that eliminates occlusion effect. If you plug that hole on the outside with some "Fun-Tack" or other sticky putty during your shooting, you will afford protection.
If you get Behind The Ear aids (BTE) they could be one of several forms. If the part that goes into your ear canal is just a skeleton of a plug, that is an open aid and cannot be used for protection. If the tube goes into a receiver inserted into the ear canal, that may be used for protection if it is designed to make a tight seal and doesn't have a vent. Ask the Audiologist about the configuration.
 
Nomad47 said:
Norm (or anybody else with experience), I will be receiving my free VA in-the-ear hearing aids this week. I was hoping I could leave them in the ear and turned on while shooting with muffs on. Would this be a mistake?
Yes! I take mine out and put in plugs to preserve what I have left. Later! Frank
 

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