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Dual purpose powders

its really simple.its this way for every cartridge all the way through every reloading manual.
When you use the slower burning powders you get more velocity.look at photo
Please read Lauries explanation above. You are misunderstanding the load data for the 300 Win - in fact, it demonstrates Laurie's point - R16 is a poor match for the cartridge, and reaches maximum pressure before optimum velocity. At the other end of the scale - try loading a 223 with Retumbo - you cannot reach optimum pressure/velocity, given the case size- so a faster burning powder is required.
 
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I understand what y'all are saying.
I was just stating the obvious thing in all reloading manuals.
Example 300wm with 200 gr bullet h4350 will be lower velocity than retumbo.now use say 7828 and h1000 for comparison velocity will be closer cause burn rates are closer thats all I was implying.
Same should apply for rl15.5 . reloading data list higher velocity than varget I know test barrels will be faster or slower and so did the accurate shooter bulletin on 15.5 powder using same barrel
I'm not sure why people are getting less fps than varget unless alliant has lessoned burn rate to say 4895 rate.
Normally each step slower in burn rate chart that powder will slightly produce more velocity using load data.

But rl15.5 might not shine until using 185+ gr bullets.
 
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My philosophy on powder would have me using two different powders for two different bullet weight classes in the same case.

@moe africa

For the context of your question, Varget will be fine.
 
View attachment 1550077its really simple.its this way for every cartridge all the way through every reloading manual.
When you use the slower burning powders you get more velocity.look at photo

You've failed to understand the relationships here. .300 Win Mag is a very large case high-case capacity 'magnum'. Its water capacity is c. 92gn. 308 Win holds c. 56gn, some 40% less. Their capacity to bore area ratios are 747 for the 308 Win and 1,227 for the 300 magnum.

The higher the capacity to bore area ratio, the slower burning the powder needed. All that Alliant's table tells you is that Re26 is better in that cartridge's capacity and bore-size relationship than Re23, and both are better than the very much faster burning Re16 which is pretty sub-optimal for this cartridge and bullet weight. Note how much lower the maximum charge weight is because it pressures out at a much smaller weight which in turn delivers less total energy and therefore gives a lower MV.

Every cartridge design allied to a particular bullet weight has some optimal powders, but there will also be many more whose burn speeds range from totally unsuitable through sub-optimal to in some cases dangerous. There are slower burners than Re26 available - load them into the 300 Win Mag + 180 bullet combination, and as the powder burn speed slows, pressures and hence MVs will drop. Likewise, load that trio into the 308 Win with a 180gn bullet and you find all are too slow burning for this application and give poorer MVs than optimal powder grades. If you stuff enough Re16 into the case with a massive degree of compression, you might just about get a half suitable result, but Re23 and 26 would be hopelessly low velocity and inefficient as their proper 'working pressures' simply won't be achieved with the 308's capacity to bore ratio. However going 'faster' than Re16, will improve cartridge efficiency and velocities here, until powders then become too fast-burning and MVs again drop off.

You say that loads tables always show higher MVs from the slowest burning powders. Not so. For a start, with the huge range of powders potentially available for most rifle cartridges these days, bullet companies are usually very selective indeed, omitting all marginal candidates of whatever burn speed. So, the slowest burning powder in a table is the slowest that gives good results, and as most purchasers in the US handloading market in particular are MV-obsessed, they're the powders tested and if found to deliver, included in the tables. Not every reloading manual does this exclusively though as some look for performance consistency too and may override sheer speed as long as the results aren't too low. Lyman is one such and returning to 308 Win, shows Winchester 760 ball powder in some its heavier bullet loads. With the 200gn SMK, 760 is the slowest burning powder shown, and whilst it wins the 'potentially most accurate load' award, it actually produces the lowest MV of the 11 powders in the table.

Moreover, burn rate is not the only factor affecting MVs. Specific energy levels are important and a very high-energy powder would normally be expected to give higher MVs than an equivalent burn-rate low-energy grade. Look at Vihtavuori's extremely comprehensive 308 Win tables

https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-data/rifle-reloading/?cartridge=30

and the highest MVs come from the N500 series added nitroglycerine grades. Now you're going to say these tables actually back up your contention as N550, the slowest burning grade listed nearly always gives the highest MV with mid to heavyweight bullets. (Not always as the faster burning N540 'beats' 550 with the 185gn Lapua Scenar.) BUT, bear in mind that Viht makes no fewer than 10 slower burners than N550, and not a single one is shown for any 308 Win bullet combination, and the reason is simply that their burn rate makes them sub-optimal or even totally unsuitable.
 
Using burn rate charts to begin load development for cartridges is a bad idea. Investing in loading software like GRT and Quickload will allow you to narrow the gap on powder selection before making any purchases. Reloading manuals and generic charts don’t have your barrel and chamber. The software allows you to enter your parameters and fine tune before squeezing the trigger. Any other fly by the seat of your pants method and you’ll end up with powder stock that’s of little use once you’ve found a better load. I’m speaking from experience. It sucks to have to pour powder and seat bullets just to burn powder that you know doesn’t perform like “the load” for the rifle. I don’t do this just to hear it pop. I shoot for precision every squeeze and hate when I read about references to charts and manuals when I know it’s a sub par recipe. The reloading investment is significant enough to buy or download the software and run the test on the laptop before buying any components.
 
Little derail here but the topic is wide enough…
@Laurie, any success known with Lovex S060 in a Dasher?
Thankyou


I've not heard of its use there. I'd have thought it rather fast burning for the Dasher other than with light bullets. When I tried in 223 Rem with a long-throat chamber, it acted as rather quicker burning than the reference H4895 and I thought it unlikely to achieve the latter's top MVs.

https://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=3934
 
I've not heard of its use there. I'd have thought it rather fast burning for the Dasher other than with light bullets. When I tried in 223 Rem with a long-throat chamber, it acted as rather quicker burning than the reference H4895 and I thought it unlikely to achieve the latter's top MVs.

https://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=3934
Thank you. The issue here, being Varget not an option here in EU, is to find an alternative to N150 that is sought after by many, being the go-to powder for 308 fclass shooters and Dasher boys in PRS.
So far among the obtainable powders, only RS50 albeit a tad on the fast side for me and maybe N160 (since many shoot H4350 in the Dasher in the US) come to mind. Maybe Lovex 062 could then fit the bill
 
Lol. Guy obviously has no idea who he's talking to
There's been a raft of them lately. See also Dunning-Kruger...

"Dunning-Kruger effect, in psychology, a cognitive bias whereby people with limited knowledge or competence in a given intellectual or social domain greatly overestimate their own knowledge or competence in that domain relative to objective criteria or to the performance of their peers or of people in general."

In other words, we dont know what we dont know.

1714331688948.jpeg
 
Another thing to remember is projectile weight... say in the 300winmag shooting 230 gr bullets you'll be using a much slower powder than the same cartridge using 130 gr bullets.

Same thing applies to many other cartridges like the 243win shooting 105 gr bullets will be optimized with slower powders compared to if it was to shoot 55-65 gr bullets.
 
Thank you. The issue here, being Varget not an option here in EU, is to find an alternative to N150 that is sought after by many, being the go-to powder for 308 fclass shooters and Dasher boys in PRS.
So far among the obtainable powders, only RS50 albeit a tad on the fast side for me and maybe N160 (since many shoot H4350 in the Dasher in the US) come to mind. Maybe Lovex 062 could then fit the bill

Being in the UK, I'm in the same boat. I use Viht N150 in the straight 6BR with 105-108s. S062 might well work - not tried it myself in the BR family.
 
Good Day
I currently load with N555 for my 6.5cm and it gives amazing results
I'm in the process of getting a 308 for prs limited class shooting ( takes 4 months to get a rifle down here, commies )
I'm a student and I Don't have the greatest budget so I'm primarily going to be shooting 308 and plan on stocking up components for about 2 000 rounds
Now the 6.5cm is going to be used less ,about 500 rounds for the year
The most available powder here is Varget(cheapest) currently and then N540 ,n150 is not that prevalent and gets taken up by the Ftr folk
What would be my best powder choice for
140s in a 6.5cm
168-178 in a 308
H4350
 
Good Day
I currently load with N555 for my 6.5cm and it gives amazing results
I'm in the process of getting a 308 for prs limited class shooting ( takes 4 months to get a rifle down here, commies )
I'm a student and I Don't have the greatest budget so I'm primarily going to be shooting 308 and plan on stocking up components for about 2 000 rounds
Now the 6.5cm is going to be used less ,about 500 rounds for the year
The most available powder here is Varget(cheapest) currently and then N540 ,n150 is not that prevalent and gets taken up by the Ftr folk
What would be my best powder choice for
140s in a 6.5cm
168-178 in a 308
Chiming in a little late here, but I've had really good lucky with BL-C(2). I load for .308 Winchester and 6.5x284 Norma. I had to create my own load date for the Norma, but the Hodgdon site shows loads for a variety of projectiles between 95 and 130 grains for the 6.5 Creedmoor.
 
Just to cause a little hate and descension ; Laurie , What are your thoughts on using VV140 in the .308 for the lighter bullets ? The 168 - 175gr weights . I know there are some guys here in the States using it on the eastern side , where most I shoot with out West are using the 150 on the 185gr and up into the 215gr range .
 

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