Dual diameter bullet in the .264 Win Mag

[pertnear]

Okay, to start off, I'm an old guy & have been a gun aficionado (i.e. gun-nut) since I was a teen reading Outdoor Life. I was intrigued when the .264 WM first started getting headlines (1960?) As best I can remember, Winchester factory ammo for this round had a 2 diameter bullet. The back was bore dia & the front was land dia. I can't find any reference to the truth in this. Is my brain slipping away....?

 

[Gary in MD]

I think you are correct. I believe Ken Waters talks a little about this in his pet loads article for the 264.

 

[Bronsin]

Yes. I happen to have a few left.

 

[pertnear]

What was Win's thinking for the 2-dia bullet?

 

[Gary in MD]

I believe their engineer’s thoughts were that it would allow more powder to be used( to gain more velocity) while keeping pressure in check.
As per Ken Waters pet loads, July 1971.

 

[choprzrul]

Sounds like the same concept used for Absolute Hammer bullets. Here is a decent description.

I've used their .257 90gr Absolute Hammers in my 25-06 to 3640 fps.....great success on deer.

 

[Will Henry]

The two diameter 140 grain bullet was used so that they could throat the rifles short, for 100 grain bullets, and still seat the 140 out far enough that it didn't sit too far back in the case. Try to use a 140 grain Speer or Sierra bullet in a pre-64 Model 70 and you have to seat it way deep. The truth was, with reasonable throat dimensions, they would have been better off to let the short bullets jump a ways. Even better would have been too not try to develop a 100 grain load at all. Winchester and Remington, both made some strange decisions at times. WH

 

[M14AMU]

I had one of the first .264 rifles Winchester put out and with decent hand loaded ammo....it wouldn't hit due east!! Didn't take me long to get rid of it! I was at Fort Carson at the time with the rifle team and didn't have time to mess with it.

 

[okie]

did weatherby do something like this also??

 

[Will Henry]

Not to my knowledge. Weatherby went with the very long freebore. Most Weatherby ammo was loaded with Hornady or Nosler bullets and both shot quite well. I tried to shoot some 180 sierra boattails in a 300, and was rewarded with groups of about seven inches at 100 yds. This was in about 1966. Later, Weatherby tightened up the dimensions a little and became a little less finicky. WH

 

[okie]

Not to my knowledge. Weatherby went with the very long freebore. Most Weatherby ammo was loaded with Hornady or Nosler bullets and both shot quite well. I tried to shoot some 180 sierra boattails in a 300, and was rewarded with groups of about seven inches at 100 yds. This was in about 1966. Later, Weatherby tightened up the dimensions a little and became a little less finicky. WH

thats right . long freebore

 

[D the D]

Bullets with a bore riding nose were not a new idea when Winchester tried it for the 264 Magnum. It had been in practice with cast bullet shooting since the previous century. It remains in common use with cast boolit shooters today. Also, the Germans used the concept when they introduced the "S" spitzer bullet version of the 8x57. The nose was approximately .318" with a driving band at the base of .323. The round was good in the then new K98 with a .323" groove diameter and also in the Gewehr 88 with a 3.21-3.22 groove. The Gewehr 88/05 conversion was done so Gewehr 88 rifles that were being phased out could use the new stripper clips. That way there would be one common cartridge and clip loading system and the Gewehr 88 could be retained as war reserves and rear echelon troop use with only one ammo to be shipped. Remember, the Germans Ss ammo with 198 grain bullet was developed for machine gun use later during WWI and was not the standard infantry rifle round until 1933.