Dream List for reloading

[katyobgyn]

Hi there guys.. I have been lurking these forums for some time now. I was wondering if I could get some help from you guys.

1st my background.. I have been reloading since 1990 and watched my grandfather reload thousands upon thousands of rounds over the years when I was a kid. Most of my reloading has consisted of "hunting quality" ammo.. Used a rockchucker and reloaded 223, 243, 270, 30-06, 308 Norma Mag, and my newest addition is a 7mmWSM custom made by Hill Country Rifles with McmillanG30i WSM action, Hart 24inch heavy barrel, Mcmillan stock, and scope still pending. I have several match quality rifles built by my late grandfather including a heavy barrel 26 inch 30-06 that puts all the 168 sierras through the same hole at 100 yards. I have however lost ALL of my reloading equipment lately (dillon 650, Spolar reloader for shotshells, and my single stage presses as well, dies, scales, etc) and this is where you guys come in. I do not have any experience with neck turning and all the intricacies I have read here and learned so much about on these forums, but I am a fast (and safe) learner and I wish to start doing this. What I need from you guys is the following.. Keep in mind that $$ is not a huge concern to me.. I would rather spend a lot once than a lot over the years correcting and upgrading equipment.

I need a list of "the best of the best" for reloading match ammo. I will likely reload short (mostly for the 7WSM, long and even some 375H&H)

Dies..leaning for the Redding competition set

Press..?? need help here a turret press is appealing, but I do not believe you can get them "trully" as good as a single stager.. I am not opposed to buying 2 presses, one for the shorty cases and one for the longer ones)

Case turning and measuring devices?..leaning towards the Wilson/Sinclair models

Calipers..Starret

Digital scale..Accu-labs seem unbeatable

Im open to any suggestions..basically I wish to know what would be the dream list of equipment..now don't get me wrong if A and B are equal and B is cheaper, I would go for B regardless of brand.. Thnx so much in advance
cwebb

 

[effendude]

CWebb,
You asked the Ford/Dodge/Chevy question....Check other posts as there is a wealth of info out there already discussed.
Here is what I have based on some lurking and lots of listening to other more experienced individuals. You are wise to go with the "buy once" plan as it is cheaper in the long run.

Forster Co-Ax press for every rifle cartridge from 223 Rem to 405 Win and 375 H&H
Forster Ultra dies and seaters (I think they are as good as Redding and a few bucks less) Redding dies also
I have started playing with the Forster Shoulder Bump dies for some calibers....
Redding Powder Measure and trickler
Forster trimmer
RCBS electronic scale- Seems like a good value
Sinclair neck turning tools
Sinclair misc. tools as needed.
Starret elctronic caliper

I have a Dillon Square Deal in 45ACP I just set up this weekend. Works great for that specific caliber and I can load 300 rds/hr with it while still learning.
Good Luck,
Scott

 

[watercam]

When I was in your position I called Sinclair and asked them the very same question(s). They are great to talk to and can give their opinions based on years of reloading for competition as well as hunting. Pro and con of all the gear they sell (which is from every manufacturer you are considering plus a few). Prices are higher than some but every single item they recommend worked and is still working to my complete satisfaction. When in doubt, simpler is more consistant in my book.

 

[Gearheadpyro]

I don't compete (yet), but I do enjoy making top quality ammo. Here's my breakdown.

Press- Forster Co-Ax. Just got mine in yesterday and it's bulletproof.

Scale- RCBS Chargemaster is great. Throws to .1gr. I've not used the acculab so I can't vouch for it.

Dies- Redding Competition, I also use a Forster bump die, and a couple miscellaneous Lee dies (gasp).

Case uniforming tools- Sinclair

Neck Turner- I'm saving my penny's for a Sinclair, but don't have one yet.

Trimmer- Haven't settled on this yet. I've got the Hornady Cam Lock, but am not really happy with it. I think my next try will be the Wilson Micrometer trimmer.

You really won't go wrong with Sinclair, K&M, Redding, or Forster for making top notch stuff. It's a matter of preference.

 

[Winchester69]

You aren't giving up anything with a Redding T-7 turret, if that's what appeals to you. Forster and Redding have the better presses, and you just need to pick the one that most appeals to you. Many like the Co-Ax, and it is excellent. You should be aware that it is ergonomically different, it's easiest to use from a standing position, and you should try one to see how you like it before making a decision.

Neck-turning fits the neck to a tight-chamber barrel. Unless you're shooting a purpose-built rifle, it really doesn't have an application. It doesn't salvage bad brass. You'll be ahead for culling your brass by variation in neck-wall thickness, using a ball micrometer for that purpose.

Starrett, Brown&Sharpe and Mitutoya make excellent, and expensive, tools. For reloading, their level of precision isn't necessary, the exception being that if you're checking for excess pressure (case-head expansion) by using a micrometer, you'll probably want a decent one. Otherwise, economy instruments will serve your purpose. Get what pleases you. One tool that you will find beneficial is Sinclair's run-out gauge for assessing your sized brass and loaded rounds.

Rather than using a powder measure, which really won't do the job for rifle reloading, and an expensive electronic scale, you'll be well served by RCBS's ChargeMaster Combo. RCBS has been improving the piece for several years, and it has gained a very good reputation. Do some searches to verify.

Forster and Redding both make excellent dies. Redding's Type-S FL bushing sizing dies and either a Redding mic seater or Forster seater will do what you need. If your rifle's chambers are generous, it may be necessary to size in more than a single step, which may not be convenient. Forster will fit their sizing die to your spec for a nominal fee. If your rifles are loading from magazines, the micrometer-head seater may serve little purpose; Forster's standard seating die shares the design of the mic seaters, whereas Redding's doesn't.

A book that you may find beneficial is Glen Zediker's Handloading for Competition, although the author's style is self-indulgent. It's available from Sinclair. If you order it, be sure and request a catalog. If you don't order it, go to their website and ask for a catalog anyway.

 

[ronemus]

The best purchase to make when reloading for accuracy is Precision Shooting's Reloading guide; this is a tutorial, not a data book, and gives you all the details on how to do it right. A data book is also good to have since the loads are pressure tested and make a better starting point than information you get from people off the web. Get together with an experienced reloader and have him show you the ropes; many steps are done by feel and others are better demonstrated than described.

A case tumbler is necessary, and while I can't recommend a brand, I can say that I'm not pleased with Midway's - the construction is shoddy and breaks down often (the lifetime warranty on mine is necessary, but current models have a 2-year warranty). I tumble with walnut before sizing to remove deposits and with cob afterwards to remove lube and to polish.

My favorite single-stage press is the Hornady Lock 'N Load - it's a strong O-frame design and the Lock 'N Load bushings make die changes very fast. It won't be wasted money if you decide to get a progressive later since nearly all competitors do their long-range loads single stage, even if they do their short-range ammunition on a progressive.

I like the Hornady New Dimension sizing die because the elliptical expander works very well - no runout problems, so I can decap, size and expand in one step (many do this as three separate operations). Imperial sizing die wax is the best lube on the market, making the sizing fast and uniform (be sure to lube inside case necks to get uniform expansion).

Since I shoot 3-4,000 rounds a year, I use a Gracey trimmer (would probably buy a Giraud now) and Gracey neck shaver. The Giraud carbide cutter makes the trimmer work much better. I set them up side by side and can produce 250-300 rounds of trimmed, chamfered and neck turned brass an hour. I uniform primer pockets using a Sinclair carbide tool and deburr flash holes with a RCBS tool, both chucked in a cordless drill - I use the uniformer to clean primer pockets because it does a better job of getting into the corners than a brush.

Primer seating is very individual. I prefer the Sinclair tool since it has the best feel of anything on the market, but it costs $100. Any of the hand tools is superior to using your press which has far too much leverage. I don't like the auto-feed tools because an accident that sets off a primer could set off a very dangerous chain reaction (primers are high explosives)! The RCBS hand priming tool that uses APS strips is good once the spring that tensions the ram is replaced with a lighter one (I think the one I scrounged is for the AR-15 buffer retaining pin), otherwise you can't feel the primer seat. You can buy empty primer strips and refill them easily with the RCBS tool, so you're not limited to CCI primers.

Instead of a powder measure, I use the PACT/RCBS PowderMaster/PowderPro dispenser and scale combination. I push a button to dispense a charge while I seat the bullet over the last charge; this is a fast as using a measure and gives me a charge weighed to +/- 0.1 gr every time. The downside of this scale is that the reading doesn't change until the weight varies by 0.4 gr; this makes manual trickling a pain since you have to bump the pan to get a new reading. I use the charge as measured to 600 and trickle for 800-1000. The original measure wasn't very fast, but the latest generation (beginning in mid-2003) dispenses in half the time. If you come across an old one it can be upgraded for ~$75. Today I'd get the RCBS ChargeMaster - it's faster yet.

The Redding and Forster Competition Seaters are equally good, so get whichever you prefer. Either will have problems with heavily compressed loads although the Forster is more durable and less expensive, but you may want to get another seater to handle them. However, accuracy usually suffers when the powder is compressed, so this may be a non-issue for you.

You'll also need some measuring equipment to set up your dies properly. A couple of dial calipers are handy, especially since you'll probably tie one up with a Stoney Point bullet comparator to measure seating depth. A Stoney Point OAL gauge is a great way to determine where the lands are so you can seat bullets to the right length. A Sinclair concentricity gauge is useful to measure runout, and is probably the easiest design to use. The RCBS Precision Micrometer is the best way to measure case length to size properly for your chamber, although a Stoney Point case length comparator on dial calipers is nearly as convenient.

There will be some miscellaneous items you'll want as well. Reloading blocks help you keep operations organized and prevent powder spills. A collet-type bullet puller will let you recycle many of your mistakes. A primer tray is handy to get them all facing right way up. A powder funnel is necessary, and one that incorporates a 6" drop tube will let you get more powder in the case. A chronograph is very useful (I like the CED Millenium), especially in combination with good ballistics software package (Shooting Lab by RSI is head and shoulders beyond anything else available at a reasonable price); this is especially true for long-range load development (>600 yards).

Of course, you'll need a supply of components (bullets, powder, primers), but those will depend on the caliber you're reloading and what you intend the loads to do. It's useful to have a selection of small quantities of bullets, primers and powders so you can experiment to find what your rifle likes.

 

[Rust]

For loading match centerfire rifle ammo:

Redding press

Redding die set, standard FL die with the floating carbide expander ball, a type S FL sizing die with carbide bushings, a neck sizing die using the same bushings and the micrometer seating die. Use varies with how the brass is acting.

Redding competition shellholder kit to adjust shoulder bump (when needed).

Wilson case trimmer with the micrometer adjustment.

Sinclair carbide primer pocket uniformers.

Flash hole deburring tool (reground by self) for OTL (other than Lapua) brass.

Sinclair thick loading blocks.

Sinclair neck thickness measuring tool.

Sinclair runout tool.

RCBS Chargemaster (with high quality surge protecter/line filter/power strip, think Monster Cable home entertainment unit).

High quality commercial workbench.

Satern powder funnels, caliber specific for a perfect fit.

Mitotoyo and Starrett calipers.

Mitotoyo digital and analog mic's

Pretty much covers what I use on my bench. I have a whole bunch of other stuff gathering dust, the listed stuff is what works and works well for me.

For loading pistol ammunition:

Dillon 650 with case feeder and all the otherr bells and whistles, 600+ rounds and hour. I cannot overstate how happy I was when I set it up and it's worked perfectly ever since. Works well enough everyone else is copying it.

 

[Skeeter]

Press = Sinclair BR, Redding Boss II, Forester Co-Ax, Harrell's Compact or Sinclair Arbor Press
Powder Measure = Harrells BR, Redding 3BR, Pact Digital Dispenser (Harrell's my favorite, only due to how slow the Pact dispenses)
Dies = Redding Competition Bushing Neck Sizing (Titanium Carbide) Set
Measuring = Mitutoyo for both calibers and micrometers
Comparator = Redding, Stoney Point or Hornady
Go, No-Go Gauges, Reamers = PT&G
Max Cartridge Gauges = Wilson
Scale = Pact Digital
Neck Turning = K&M, Sinclair or Forester hand held
Neck Reamer = Wilson
Case Trimmer = Sinclair/Wilson Ultimate
Chamfering = Wilson
Primer Pocket uniforming = K&M
Flash Hole Deburring = K&M
Priming = RCBS ASP Strip Primer
Tumbler = Lyman 2500
Media Separator = Any
Concentrically Gauge = Sinclair or Hornady

Skeeter

 

[katyobgyn]

I cannot express my gratitude for the incredible wealth of information you guys have put forth as well as the time taken to write all down.. As I expected "you" the members of this forum have been an invaluable tool to help me with this decision.. I will take up the idea of calling the Sinclair guys and ask for their advice and use that in conjunction with the info you all have posted.. I really appreciate the help and will keep you guys updated.
cwebb

 

[SS427]

These guys sure love to spend someone else's money. Good thing $$ isn't a big concern.

One of the best investments you can make, has nothing to do with reloading, and that is wind flags. Learning to use wind flags will reduce your groups more than anything.

 

[acloco]

Forster CoAx
Forster or Redding dies
Acculab or VIC123 (same scale)

Hornady powder measure - works better than or the same as the others...and does not cost as much

Forster Case Trimmer - all of the additional pilots, etc that you will need to buy, are a lot less expensive than any of the other brands. Accuracy is very good. Can also turn necks with this trimmer as well.

Dillon 550B - if you reload anything in volume, Dillon is the best. Use Dillon pistol dies...your life is not complete until you have used their newest version, even if not used in a Dillon press.

Dillon LARGE case tumbler. Spend the money...it is worth it. I use medium corncob media and NuFinish car polish to clean cases with.

RCBS case prep center - huge time and finger saver. Does large and small primer pockets, debur primer hole, & inside/outside chamfer the case necks.

Possum Hollow case trimmer - if you need to trim to length a lot of rifle cases, this is one of the best investments for the dollar.

Bench. BUILD a bench. Make it heavy.

Storage - you NEED storage.

As another person mentioned...reloading manuals. Buy as many as feasible...old to new. Careful with data from the old manuals, some of the powders are named the same...but are actually different powders.

Chair...may sound crazy, but you are going to spend some time at the bench. BUY a chair that YOU are comfortable in (not too comfortable that you can nap in it!!)

 

[tmason1]

Man......I'm surprised. Unless I missed it, noone mentioned Wilson neck dies and in-line seaters. Maybe I'm showing my age!